Serial health entrepreneur who called out Steven Bartlett | Ben Coomber, Awesome Supplements

Strategy & Tragedy: CEO Stories with Steph Melodia is the best business podcast for curious entrepreneurs featured in the UK's Top 20 charts for business shows.

Hosted by Stephanie Melodia, Strategy & Tragedy features candid interviews with entrepreneurs who have scaled - and failed - their businesses - sharing their lessons in entrepreneurship along the way. From Simon Squibb of 'What's Your Dream?' Internet fame to Lottie Whyte of Sunday Times Top 100 Fastest-Growing company, MyoMaster. From exited founders like Nick-Telson Sillett to subject matter experts like Alex Merry in the public speaking arena and Matt Lerner, the GOAT of Growth.

This is one of the best podcasts to listen to if you're looking for educational and inspirational content on Spotify, Apple, Google, Amazon, YouTube or watch the clips on Instagram, LinkedIn, TikTok, or YouTube Shorts

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In this week's episode, Stephanie Melodia interviews Ben Coomber, a multi-award winning high performance coach, bestselling author of 'How to Live an Awesome Life,' and the Founder & CEO of Awesome Supplements.

(Strategy & Tragedy listeners get an exclusive 15% off with the code CEO15 😉).

Watch on YouTube via the link below or keep reading for the transcript, where Steph and Ben discuss:

• Ben's viral open letter calling out health misinformation from Steven Bartlett on his show, Diary of a CEO

• Personal brand strategy in 2025, Ben's consistency rule, and lessons building successful businesses in FMCG health

• Ben's health crisis pivot, and much more.

SM: About a year ago, you wrote an open letter to Steven Bartlett about spreading health misinformation. That video has since garnered over a million views. What was the upshot of that?

BC: Well, he blocked me on Instagram. Or his team did. So that's one thing. The second thing is is, like, there was slurry of activity after that. So media started to write a bit more. They started to dig into his past, then they were like, oh, flight story, investor. So whether I created any kind of domino, I don't know. I'm not gonna claim that. I also know that there's a company that he's involved in where it was just discussion point with the board. Like, do we wanna do anything with this information and stuff? And there was a point in time, I think, almost six months ago, they've brought in a process in the YouTube where they were like, I'm doing more fact checking. We're now kind of looking at stuff. We're looking at the research. So things have changed positively on the whole, or at least they're intimating things changing. Whether I had an effect, I've absolutely no idea. With a million views, maybe a few important people saw it.

SM: I'm sure you had at least some effect there, Ben. And I wanna obviously dive into, like, why that was so important to you, why it mattered so much. Obviously, you're the founder of, a health brand yourself, which we will dive into all of that.

But sticking with this sort of Steven Bartlett theme, I know so many people are so disappointed and frustrated with kind of the new direction that's kinda gone in. The state of social media today, truth is not as attractive as it should be. It's definitely not treated with the same level of respect.

How are you kind of reconciling all these sorts of, like, tips, tricks? I know you've got a big following on social media as well. Right? Like, clickbait-y hooks and shock tactics and doing kind of what needs to be done to kind of play that game and raise your power up and get visible versus not compromising on your values and still retaining the truthfulness of what you're talking about.

BC: With social media, I see two people winning. There's the people that play into the algorithm, they do the game, they know all the hacks, and they just kind of go all in, and that's absolutely fine. And then the other end of the spectrum, there's people that really know their craft. They're talking truth. They're in alignment with themselves, so that everything they're talking about is congruent. You can feel the energy from them. You're like, okay, I kinda trust you.

And then there's a all the people in the middle, wanna speak their truth, trying to give education, but also try and play the algorithm game, and they're they're just getting lost. And I think we've all got caught in that.

I've been through a period quite recently where I've been trying to think about, okay, where's my personal brand morphing? I've morphed as a person and, actually, I can't really do it the way that I used to. I wanna actually wanna kinda change it. So I think if anyone's listening to this and they're trying to use social media, like, the best thing you can do is get very aligned with yourself, get very aligned with what it is that you're about. We talk about authenticity. That's part of it. What's your own truth? Who are you talking to?

Like, if I think about myself as a coach, because I coach entrepreneurs, the coach the person I'm trying to speak to is me five years ago. And a lot of people are trying to help or provide a product or a service, like, if you have a baby care brand, where you're talking to new moms, and you were once the new mom, and you know the voice and the tone. So the more you can get closer to that, you're gonna build a sustainable business. It might take longer because you're not chasing the clicks and all the rest of it, but I think we're we're moving into an area where you kind of fall into the, oh, I will do the short form content and try and really play the game. And there's value there, or you shoot for the nuance. And this is where this podcast is valuable. It's like, we're gonna have a proper conversation. Exactly.

We're gonna open up Pandora's box and find out all those little nuggets of wisdom. And we know the value of podcast. Like, there's some podcasts out there with, like, 500,000,000, like, views a month. I was reading a statistic on, Lewis Howes' podcast this morning. I was like, that's bonkers. And it is good news because the depth that provides that space and time to go allowing for some of that nuance, which you don't get in the shorter form content, that more click baity sort of stuff.

SM: That really resonates. I think I've definitely sort of fallen, like, in the middle there of finding the way, but what speaks to me is actually the patience that's required for us. I think you can using, like, a food analogy, I think you can fall into that trap of chasing the sugar high and the quick fix. And that's kind of playing into the algorithm and the click baity sort of style versus the good nutritionally refueling food that is gonna be better for us.

Was there a clear you mentioned that there was a there was a shift and you kind of revisited your personal brand strategy?

BC: Yeah. So COVID, towards the end of COVID, I got long COVID. So I became very depressed, very despondent, no motivation, didn't wanna get out of bed, and it just fueled a kind of, we call it a self crisis. And on my journey to, better physical health, I realized that there's more to physical health, a lot more. And I've been in the health game for twenty years, and it made me then start to look at the, mental health, emotional health, our energetic health as humans. And with that, you start to become closer to your truth as a human, because you start to have to peel back all these layers of stories that you're telling yourself, faulty belief systems, limiting beliefs.

So the the hardest thing I found is that I was changing a lot as a person, and I was still trying to move my personal brand forward. And that meant I was, like, you know A sign of alignment. I was just at a section all the time. Oh, we're going left. Oh, we're going right. Okay. Straight ahead. I need to be doing this. And I wish I'd had the foresight or a great coach who'd been through a similar journey and go, no. No. No. These are two separate things. We think about the business. We think about your personal brand. What's your personal brand need to do right now to maybe support your business? Great. Let's do that. And then what's happening with you is kind of over there. And, unfortunately, my personal brand was a massive driver for our business' success, and I had a lot of my identity wrapped up in my personal brand. So as it started for me internally, I was like, like, what do I do? Like because I'm still the kind of nutrition guy or whatever, but I'm I'm kinda more than that. I'm now a dad, and I'm all of this has happened. So, unfortunately, hopefully, I can just give a few tips so people don't screw up as much as I A dad and all these other aspects personality.

SM: Could you not kind of throw them into the mix and evolve with that?

BC: I did. It's just when your health's not great, you just don't have a good platform for thinking clearly, operating productively. Like, for me, health is such a foundation in all that we do. And as soon as it starts to slip, you're not as present. You haven't got the focus. You know, you're not thinking clearly. You're not a very good leader to yourself and other people. So your health always has to be a priority. And I was just trying to do too much of it all Yeah. And try and make a success of it all.

And part of that was the pressure that I put on myself, the expectation that I placed on myself to be able to juggle all these things, because I've been so good at it. Mhmm. Like my twenties, I was became an expert at doing a thousand things, working twelve hours, fourteen hours a day. Life changed, and I wasn't readjusting.

SM: This has become such a common theme, especially with I'm not sure if you would I guess you fall into, like, the millennial, like, generation, same as me. But 39. So Right. Okay. Elder millennial, perhaps. But, yeah, it's such a common pattern that we see, especially when you do have the energy, and the world did look differently as well when we were in our twenties. So you could just, like, push and go for it. And it's not until you're forced for whatever reason that you have to confront actually thinking strategically, making tough choices, deciding you know, I've geeked out on, actually, the the linguistic origins of the word "decide. So this absolutely blew my mind. So I just wanna share this with listeners as well. So the word decide, I don't know if you already knew this, Ben, but decide, if you think about where that comes into play in other words so can you think of other words that have side at the end the same as decide?

By the way, gang, don't judge Ben too harshly because when you got three cameras on you, it is difficult to think clearly.

Homicide, suicide, like and it and it comes from death. And decide means what you're killing off. It's what you're killing off. You're deciding. You're killing off these other things. And this is where, like, the art of strategy is not what you say yes to. It's what you say no to. So this is a bit of my current obsession at the moment is that, like, stripping things away.

And so relating this to our early stage entrepreneurs who are listening, who are depending on what age or generation they're in, regardless, if you're in the early stage of business, you are under a lot of pressure. So with the sort of less is more idea in mind, what can you speak to, especially with your coaching? Like, what can you speak to for these early stage entrepreneurs who either have the energy or they're gonna find the energy from somewhere to try and do all of the things, how can you counteract that?

BC: As soon as you can afford it, get a coach or join a group or find a community that you can meet with where you're starting to hear stories about, kind of, what you need to do. Because so much of build building a business for so many people is kinda, like, in your bedroom, doing the thing. Foot to the grind. Lonely. You're just in your, like, echo chamber. And then a new opportunity comes up, and you're like, okay, I'll just I'll do that, I'll do that. And you'd already kind of agreed on a strategy with yourself, and now you're veering off the strategy because it's like fitness. You start going to the gym, and the results are really slow. Okay. You've seen a bit of weight loss on the the scales, but you're like, this isn't going that fast. Perhaps I should do this diet. Perhaps and it was like, you just need to keep going for, like, another three weeks. And you'll start high fiving yourself and being like, boom.

It's the same in business. Like, you go and you go and you go and you're like, fuck. I mean, I started blogging. I started blogging in 02/2009, and it took me two and a half years to get my first like on Facebook of sharing one of my blogs. And I wrote a blog every week. That. Every week. And do you know what? The only thing that kept me going is that I'd read that many business books where they were just, like, you've gotta keep going. Keep going. You've gotta be consistent. Like, this is a two, three and I always had this three year number in my mind that you should, if you're doing a good thing, start to really move in at year three, and I did.

SM: That's amazing.

BC: I started to get moving at three years. At the three year mark, I was able to go, do you know what? I can leave my other jobs now. I can, like, do this full time.

SM: Fantastic. So I love that you shared that little tidbit of literally that there's stuff like that we need to hear. Everyone needs to hear. Entrepreneurs, especially of that that real specificity in your example there of I was blogging every single week for two and a half years until I got my first like. Like, that's important, chef.

And I might not have even read it. I've just got, like, a sympathy lyric. It was Ben's mom. It was missus but, you know, this really aligns up. I happen to be reading the book Psychology of Money at the moment, and it's and it taught literally, the bit I'm reading about are those two things is the almost like the compound interest, the 1%.

And it's kind of what you're saying there with the diet. You go to the gym and you start to lose a few kilo or, you know, you shed that first weight, and then it sort of tapers off. And it's so easy to then go and look for something else when you need to just keep going. You need to tow the the path and stay steady on that. And, and then the the fact that you need that going, I just wanna share this with listeners as well.

There's an amazing story that really resonated on Walt Disney, actually, and how he produced like, literally hundreds of hours of animation that never got seen, that were not a success by anyone's metric, took his business into bankruptcy, fallings out, like, pure, like, failures left, right, and center. And it was the film Snow White that was the game changer for Walt Disney. And that earned him Oscar. It put him on the global stage and yielded, adjusted for inflation, like, billions today. It was an absolute, like, real game changer. And the money he made from Snow White, he was able to purchase the studios that still stand today in Burbank. But it was that typical you don't see the rest of the iceberg. This is the tip. You think Disney. Don't even question it. Theme parks. But all of that hard graft that's gone in.

So I wanna connect that back to your health because, obviously, like, health, athleticism always has this really great connection with So you mentioned that you're in health for twenty years. What is your background, Ben?

BC: So at age 18, I was trying to audition for drama school and become an actor. And it wasn't going very well. It didn't go very well, as you can see.

SM: Hey. You're on you're on The UK's top 20 business show. God, you made it.

BC: Very true. I have made it. Thank you. I'm gonna go tell my mom after this.

And with all the rejection within it, I started to look at myself in the mirror and at the obese, overweight, had eczema, had asthma. I was just not in a great place, and I just sort of looked at myself and said, perhaps I'm part of the problem. Perhaps I'm not you know, and I looked at actors of the day, and you look at, like, Brad Pitt.

I'm like, they were slim. They looked good. Like, I was like, I should probably try and do that. So I went on a health journey, had a lot of hiccups, came into contact with a great coach. He sat me down, and in thirty minutes, he changed the whole trajectory of everything that I was doing.

And in the space of eight months, I lost five and a half stone Wow. To do my help, like, got on the way to solving a lot of my health issues. And that just got me very interested in health because it's just such a transformation. I was like, wow. Interesting.

So I was grappling with acting and health, and I always wanted to go traveling. So I went backpacking on my own through Asia. Wow. And, it was during that time, I was piecing to some ideas to together. And I came home, and my girlfriend at the time went for a walk.

And she was like, you know, she gave me good advice. She was like, just pursue what you're passionate about right now, which is what my mom's always said. And she was like, maybe do the fitness thing. So I took a bit of money that my mom had from a university, trained to become a personal trainer, nutritionist, masseuse. So stayed as a, like, a hands on one to one coach for, like, on five to six years, mostly part time.

Time. I was never full time as a trainer. I was always doing other things. Did you have a day job during this? At the beginning, I did.

What was that? I was a van driver. And then I was just incredibly curious, and I knew there was something in me that wasn't just I didn't wanna be a one to one coach full time.

There was just a lot of curiosity within me. Maybe call it the ADHD. I don't know. And I started doing all sorts of different jobs. And then when I was at uni, I kinda got the business in that they launched an enterprise center, and they had grants going. So they emailed around all the students. They were like, we've got grants. Who wants to start a business? I was like, sounds cool.

That's so exciting. Mum always said I was entrepreneurial. So I sat down. I actually had an idea at the time and sat down with them, and they helped me build out the idea. Nice.

Built it, failed miserably. It was absolutely terrible. What was the first idea? It was called yourdietadviser.co.uk. It was an online nutrition coaching service, but it was just set up incredibly complicated.

I didn't actually wanna coach. So I rebuilt that business, and that bill was business became my first ever successful business. Had 12 coaches running up, working after me. We were coaching thousands of people, and then I morphed into education, and then the supplement business came in 2016. But within all of that, there's always been a personal brand within it.

I've always enjoyed writing and speaking and coaching, and that's always wrapped and intertwined itself around what's this is. Yeah. Well, as you mentioned personal brand, what's your advice to early stage entrepreneur in 2025? This will be coming out around sort of September, October time maybe. So, like, bear that in mind with the timing because I know how quickly these things kinda change.

What's your advice now? Because I know that, like you know, I was just talking to someone earlier. I've been posting consistently on LinkedIn for well over five year, like, since BC before COVID. Right? And, saying about, like, I'm not a published author yet.

And I was thinking, actually, the amount of posts that I've published on LinkedIn over all those years, if you think, like, five times a week for basically, like, six it's like a fucking, like, LinkedIn trilogy with it at that. But I've seen it morphed and changed so incredibly in that time. So now this next era, as we're coming into that second half of the twenty twenties, what's your advice now on how to approach building a personal brand? In marketing, because this has come up already, like, there's there's so many ways to market a business, and they do all work. YouTube, podcast, flyers, like, it all works.

What you've gotta do is refine the strategy, do it long enough so you're starting to learn and iterate and what works and AB test and all that kind of stuff. Like, with personal branding, with finding your feet with it, and this is only from the recent journey that I've kind of been on, It's very easy to look at maybe what your market wants or what the product wants or whatever. The best thing you can do is find a way to speak your own truth. Mhmm. And all the power in personal brand is when you get the richness of someone's stories.

And one of the greatest storytellers on the Internet right now, and kind of think is Alex Hormozi. And he actually takes incredibly, I'm gonna say, quite boring stories sometimes, like, you know, I did this, I left my job. But he's like, he tells it in a way where you're like, oh my god, that was really, like, bold and whatever. And, like, it is a good story, and it's a very real life story, but he's just really The way it's been told. Yeah.

The way it's been told, the passion of it, and it's incredibly relatable. And, actually, you listen to Hormozi, and he's constantly telling you it. And the more that you can get in touch with your own stories, like what rate what adversity have you been through? What challenges have you had? Like, right now, who I coach, I'm coaching people through the challenge that I had four years ago, where I was lost, depressed, had the money, didn't have the time, was mentally crippled, like, now I can help you through that journey, and now I'm gonna try and tell those stories, because they are my truth.

Yeah. You've actually been there. You hear through it. You're speaking to that younger self. And that's resonance.

Yeah. People will pick up on that, and you will then find your people. Yeah. So you mentioned Horn Mosey. Glad that we need to close the loop on Steven Bartlett before we keep going any further as well.

But Horn Mosey, do you like him? Do you look up to him? What's your thought? Yeah. Yeah.

I think he very much fits into the hustle culture narrative. Like, he's going hard. He's just in that season where he's like, I'm going for it. I don't care. Like, this is what I'm building.

That's kinda great. So, like, with business, when people get lost, I find people often get lost because they've kind of lost their way with what they're building and why they're building it. So, like, I work with a lot of established owners where they're like, do you know what? My business is doing a million and a half, like, but I don't have much time, blah blah blah. And I'm like, cool.

Why did you build this thing? Tell me what your goals are. Why are you reading Hormozi's book? When actually, you just wanna go on holiday with your kids, have more time, and have a rich lifestyle. Yeah.

So make sure you're modeling your success on the right kind of model. In your own definition. Or Mosey's a bad example for you. Right. He's got great insight.

He's got great tips. He's got amazing books. But, and I I think Chris Williamson is from Modern Wisdom Podcast. He said, if you idolize someone and you won't take all of the things that make them great, be careful what you idolize because you're creating a blueprint on that individual. You don't actually want that.

You just want kind of bits of that. So make sure you're finding your own kind of compass. Mhmm. So any business owner that's listening to this, it's like, you'll get to these inflection points. Like, you write down a goal, like, I wanna make 10 this month.

Cool. When you get 10, what does that mean for you? Right. Like and reassess. Don't just keep going Mhmm.

Because you carry on the treadmill. Mhmm. Like, some people can get to 10 with a 70% profit business and go, actually, I'm earning 7 k a month. That's Doing what? Freaking good.

Right. I I'm I'm earning twice what the average median income is in The UK. Like, that's a good life. Sure. Like, readjust.

Because otherwise, this unhealthy hamster wheel of just more and more and more keeps going and going and going. Literally what reason? For what? Yeah. Exactly.

So you just readjust and why? Again, in psychology of money, this bit that really resonates is, a lot of people say they wanna be a millionaire, but, actually, do they wanna spend a million pounds? Because spending a million pounds is different to being a millionaire. And it's like all those connotations that come with being a millionaire, the fast cuts, whatever, did not mean you've literally spent your money on all of these assets. So there is, like, actually, to your point on, like, aiming for these ten k months is like, okay.

And then what? Like, what does that actually mean? So I have to ask mentioning Homozie, and he's kind of part of that hustle culture family. As a health expert and the founder of a health brand, now what's your take on hustle culture? Does it fit what you're doing and why you're doing it?

Like, look. Some people out there, they're trying to build something great, and we need change makers. Like, I'm a change maker. I try to be to an extent, but I have my boundaries. So for example, I work about twenty five hours a week.

I won't really work anymore in case I'm doing something in maybe doing something specials, a bit of travel or something. And that's a boundary that I've put in place because when I work more, some of the passion dies off a little bit, some of that spark, that fire. And also, I'm a dad. I wanna spend as much time as possible with my kids. I love going on holiday a lot.

I love playing sport. And, actually, it is physically impossible to do 55 a week and be present for your kids and look after your body and have a social life. So, and also, I think it's a very interesting challenge because an entrepreneur will happily work fifty hours a week, and you'll fill those fifty hours. And sometimes you won't really know what's moved the needle on the fifty hours, but because you're applying so much effort, something must be working. So it's a great exercise for me to go, okay.

If next week and let's just say there's a business coach in the room, yes, to me. Next week, Ben, you're only allowed to work thirty hours. What do you do? And then you work thirty hours. You're like, hang on a second.

I had the same output. I just focused on the shit that was really important. So then I played another game. Ben, you're only allowed to work twenty five hours this week. Okay.

What do you focus on? And I got down to, like, eighteen, fifteen hours, and I was like, Nice. Like, there's a lot of filler here going on. Yeah. Because you have to be brutal.

I love this. I'm so happy you mentioned that because this is the the the working harder fallacy of you think you put in the more reps, the more hours, the more output you're gonna get. No. And when you don't know what's going to yield the highest results, because, you know, especially in those early days, there's a lot of experimentation, but it does mean that you're running that risk of wasting a lot of time. So I guess whatever sense you've got of the higher ROI activities.

I actually don't think looking at it from that different perspective, actually, what is the filler? That's a really great, like, framing that you put there with that question of if you've only got this many hours, it really forces it's a forcing to be like, okay. Because how much time do we waste on, like, admin on I mean, especially, we mentioned, like, LinkedIn before as well, social media, like, checking notifications and all these little, like, bits and bobs. I love have you heard of the rocks, pebbles, and sand time analogy? Yeah.

Yeah. Sort of. But you're welcome to tell the story for me. So in case anyone else so basically, you take you've got, like, a glass, and you've got rocks, you've got pebbles, you've got sand. If you start by putting the sand and then the pebbles, the rocks aren't gonna fit.

If you start with the rocks and then the pebbles, and then the sand will find its way in the cracks and in a in around the gaps between the rocks and the pebbles. So that's an analogy used in time management where if you get stuck into the admin responding to emails, checking notifications, answering Slack messages, that all kind of falls into the sand category, and that can sort of just, like, fit around the edges. But if you haven't already made space for the rocks, so to your point on that important work, like, what's actually going to yield the highest ROI, then you will never have space for that. Mhmm. And that's why I fell into that major trap, like, especially with my background and everything else.

I had to unlearn so much because what got me here won't get me there. Mhmm. And I had to really I mean, I'm still, honestly, kind of unlearning that with, like, that those sand items, they're also never going to end. That's another way you can identify what sort of tasks they are. You'll never get to the end of that sort of just you'll never get to the end of all the social media notifications.

You'll never get to the end of answering everyone's email. And so you won't you need to kind of shift that mindset of, I need to get all this done. And once that's ticked off my list, then I can turn my attention and focus on this. So anyway so Just a little extra that people can do. So when you're doing your work, have a notepad next to you, and you write down the task and you score out of 10, and it you just literally go by either data or feeling.

Both are the same. Because when you're in your early stage of your business, you are doing lots of things you're trying to make work. 100%. So you have to hustle for, like, the first, I don't know, let's just say at least a year or two. Yeah.

And then when you see patterns and data, you say there's stop doing that, stop doing that, then you start to forge a clearer, smarter path. So as you're going about your day, literally write email from, you know, email newsletter from a certain company. Okay. Three. Got no value from it.

And you just keep writing this data, and then you can go back through at the end of the week and, like, all of the things that are below a five or a six. Because if that company sent three emails that week and you scored it a three, a two, a four, no value. Like, get rid of it. There's more value out there. You wasted five, you know, minutes of your and that can be a really simple way of just trying to really simply just Yeah.

Get rid of any kind of luck. Yeah. And it's not even so much about the minutes, but it is the attention and the energy and what it sucks from you. And I think even more importantly than that is the habit that it's building because it's just that habit that you're not even consciously like, are you are you consciously craving to go and read that newsletter? I mean, there's definitely one or two that I think are amazing that I definitely look forward to landing in my inbox.

But if it's not a if you canvas and you start out with that decision making, that proactive from you of, like, these are the things I'm gonna do. These are my priorities. It's then the other stuff that gets in the way. It's then that habit, that automatic, oh, I'm checking my emails. Why?

Like, is that gonna move the business forward? Like, stick to the path. I don't know if you do this. I really like it. I've done it for a long time because I've been a digital nomad, kind of business wise, for a long time.

Uh-huh. Is, I'll do certain types of work in different locations. We've got quite That's cool. So I might use I've got a big iMac Yeah. Do certain things on that iMac.

Yeah. And then I'll go and I've got, like, a little bench seat, and I'll go and do my emails on the bench seat or in a cafe. Yeah. Then I'll do my writing always away from the office Yeah. To go somewhere.

And, a, I feel that there's quite a nice ritualistic component to some of our work. Like, I'm gonna do two hours of writing. Gonna sit down, set the scene, grab my favorite cup of coffee, whatever, and you really enjoy it. Whereas if you're sitting there for eight hours at a computer, and during those eight hours, you'll go Slack, email, like, bum, bum, bum, bum. It's all just like a bit of a mess.

Absolutely. And you never either get into a flow, and you never really kind of invest yourself in the task at hand. It's just this mess of bouncing around. Yeah. And I find that brings a lot more satisfaction to the work as well.

Exactly. I mean, how many days have we had where we get to the end of it? And we feel like we've been busy, but we're not actually sure how productive that busyness have been. I just laughed at that because I've you've you've just made me realize. I think I've I do that subconsciously without even realizing it.

Cool. And I think that the I do different things, which is one of the many reasons why I am such an advocate for that flexible remote working as well because one of the many things that's wrong with that status quo, like office environments, I I can't ever go back to that. I can't ever go back to, like, that one desk, that one location Yep. To do all of your work in an open environment with distractions. Yeah.

Like, cannot that's that's just the beginning. Anyway, did we close the loop on Steven Bartlett? I've said that a few times. Now let's get back to that. Probably not.

I don't know. Let's close the loop on that because, I wanna you, why was that so important to you? Like, why did it bug you so much that he spread that? It's so amazing. I'd listened to his podcast for a long time and had a lot of respect from him.

I listened to it from a business perspective. Really enjoyed a lot of his early shows. And being a health practitioner, I spend a huge amount of time, as does any health coach, in quite often, you know, trying to rewrite misinformation. You'll sit down with a client and they're like, "Oh, I read this and Steven Bartlett...

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