The $10k mistake I'll never forget... Selina Ho, GTM strategist & fashion entrepreneur

Strategy & Tragedy: CEO Stories with Steph Melodia is the best business podcast for curious entrepreneurs featured in the UK's Top 20 charts for business shows.

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In this week's episode, Stephanie Melodia interviews Selina Ho, GTM strategist, founder of Re:Closeted, a conscious fashion consultancy, and host of the Confessions of a Conscious CEO podcast.

Watch on YouTube via the link below or keep reading for the transcript, where Steph and Selina cover:

• Selina's unforgettable $10k mistake

• Turning a side hustle into a fully-fledged business

• Headwinds & tailwinds as a multi-cultural, second-generation female immigrant

• Expertise in GTM and finding product-market fit

• And much more...

SM: What was your 10k mistake?

SH: Diving right in! Well, thank you for having me, first of all. I'm so excited. I love that intro.

I literally hired the PR agency from hell. lt was so bad. It was just a masterclass in how not to run a business. And so I'll give you the full detail.

When I was starting Re:closeted, my sustainable fashion consultancy, I was in the midst of trying to grow it and scale it. And so one of the problems I had was, like, okay. I wanna, like, increase my brand awareness. Started working with a mentor, and it was going well. But at some point, she was like, oh, you should talk to this person. They're really good at, like, getting you out there, really good with visibility. And it was positioned like a coffee chat, but I didn't know, like, this woman had her own PR agency and this was basically a sales call, which I would have been fine with if the mentor was just like, hey, she has a PR agency, talk to her, see if it's together. Whatever.

I get into this call and we talk, and then I kinda realised this is basically a sales call. And then I was like, okay, you know what? I'll give it a shot. Done PR before. It's worked for me. I'll work with you.

And I think that was my first mistake.

I should have definitely done more due diligence. And I think sometimes when things are referred to us, there's that trusted credibility, especially because this is a mentor. I just decided to dive in. And I can definitely talk about lessons learned afterwards. But, yeah, it was like a 10k investment, and I, like, pulled my big girl pants on. I was like, instalments, I'll pay you all upfront. I'm in this. I'm committed.

So I paid her 10 k USD upfront. And then she started the work. And, essentially, the first red flag was we were supposed to have a kickoff call where she was gonna get to know me, figure out the pitch angles, all that stuff. She ghosted me. She no-showed. And in my seven years of doing client facing work, I have not once no showed a prospect or a client.

And, like, I'm sitting on the Zoom call fifteen minutes in, I'm like, where the hell are you?

Like, I didn't hear from her until the next day. And she was like, oh, sorry. Like, I was on a flight. Like, I I just, like, wires crossed, that kind of stuff. And I'm like, okay. That's a bit weird. But okay. And I I think my mistake was I just kinda kept making excuses. And I did I wasn't, like, I didn't put my foot down. But anyway, so that was the first thing.

The next thing is we have our meeting, she learns about me, all this stuff. And then in PR, they develop a press pitch for you. So it's like a one pager. And then they sent it to me for review. And on that press page, like, there was mistakes, there were grammar mistakes, there were spelling errors. And this is what's being put out to publication, so like Forbes. Obviously, it's gonna look bad on me. All this is, like, inaccurate or whatever. So I'm like, okay. Can you send me the Canva link? Like, I'll go in and I'll go edit it, which is, again, something I shouldn't be doing as a paying client. Right? But I was just like, whatever. I don't I kind of don't trust your quality of work at this point, so I'm gonna go in and edit it.

And so that was the second thing. And I probably should have just cut ties there, but I I, again, I made excuses. I kept going. And then the straw that broke the camel's back was once the press page was fixed, and I was like, go ahead.

One week into them pitching, I get an email in my inbox pitching me on my own podcast.

I died.

When I tell you, my heart fell out of my body. I was like, what? Like, am I being pranked right now?

And it wasn't even I was like, oh my god. Like, how do you write this email? Is it like, hi, Selena. I would love to pitch Selena to me. No. They not even. It was like, to whom it may concern Oh my god. The person has the best name. I just got the worst. And then in the email, there were spelling errors. My name was spelled wrong as well. Oh my god. With an e instead of an I.

And then the kicker is as well, and part of it too, they were pitching me as, like, a female woman of color, which fine. But I had never, like, okayed that, and I always want to kind of be put forward as someone that has all these accomplishments versus being like, oh, she's a POC. Like, that's why you should have demographic profile. So reductive. And so it was just thing after thing after thing.

SM: Oh my god. This is crazy.

SH: I was like, I need to stand up for myself because I cannot make excuses anymore.

And I think that process of, like, standing up for myself, asking for a refund, being like, I'm done. Like, the the owner just took it so poorly. She threw all her team members under the bus. Specifically, she said the woman that sent that email to pitch myself to be on my own podcast, she was like, oh, she recently had a baby. She's like in baby mode. Like, I was like, as a fellow woman, how could you even do that? It was just like thing after thing after thing. So there's a lot there. I've learned so much.

SM: Oh, Selina. I'm so I'm like, so glad at least the story stopped there. I was like, if she keeps going, I can't take it. There can't be more anymore. I can't be more. That's it. I've got goosebumps listening to you. I feel absolutely horrified. As an ex-marketing agency owner myself is just unfathomable.

My first question to you is is why did you feel like you had to the way you kind of phrased it there was put your big girl pants on and pay the 10k upfront. Like, was that where did that come from for you? And also how long ago was this just to get the lay of the land?

SH: This was years ago. I think I it's just the era I was in. I was, like, really committed to growing, scaling the business. And the mentor at the time that I trusted was like, hey, you should, like, really work on your visibility and brand recognition. And I had been in PR before, so I was like, okay, let's, like, invest in it. And I think there's a certain energy when I like to invest in things. It's like, I'm all in. I'm committed.

And as a business owner myself, I know it's nice when, like, clients pay in full and you have, like, capital to work with and all this stuff. You know how to so I was trying to, like So was it coming from that place of, like, confidence? I would've sat with these guys for some hours. I wasn't backed into a corner. And obviously, if you pay in full, it's cheaper than instruments as well. So if there was that advantage. But I just thought it would be, like, win win win across all boards. And I wanted to, like, fully commit and do this, and then it blew up in my face.

SM: Oh, Selina. Did you get the refund in the end?

SH: No. So that was a whole other thing that really infuriated me. So another learning.

SM: Okay. Let's go through the story.

SH: Okay. So basically I was like, okay. There's all this stuff that has happened. And if this happened to me, if I was her, I would be bending over backwards. I'd be I'm so fucking sorry. Yeah. I would take accountability. I wouldn't throw my team under the bus. I'd be like, I hired them. I trained them. This is on me. What can I do? Right? And there was, like, no accountability. That was the part that really infuriated me above anything else. No accountability. Nothing. And, like, I'm someone that's quite nice as you know, and I'm never, like, pissed. And she was like, oh, we started working. And mind you, they've done, like, a week's work, and I was also very cognizant of cutting it off sooner because I knew I wanted to get my money back. And she was like, no. Like, the strategy portion takes the most amount of time. I'm like, hold up. I went into Canva, edited my own pitch page. You're telling me that, like, you spent, I don't know, five hours of consulting work on this? Okay. Whatever.

And then, like, they started pitching for a week. And so at the end, I think I got maybe, like, 6,000 back, but it was just infuriating. And, like, the thing that also added to this was I found out after the fact that my mentor got a referral bonus.

SM: Wow.

SH: So up until that point, I love the mentor. Like, she was really helpful, but I think just the lack of transparency then finding out you had profited off of this, like, really kind of traumatic event that happened to me. I'm just like, what the fuck?

SM: Wow. Very very sneaky, very slippery, which I also wanna just underscore something you say then for the listeners. If you haven't come across Selina before, I wanna just attest to how lovely she is. Like, she's the nicest person.

We are hitting the ground running with this crazy story because we did just wanna open with this, like, insane business lesson on a show called Strategy & Tragedy, but we're not here just kinda, like, bashing, gossiping. Like, Selina is so nice.

And so to your earlier point on how far they have to push you for you to get, like, angry and mean is, like, I know Selina personally and that is so difficult to even imagine. Like, I can feel my blood boiling just listening to your stories. I can't even imagine being in there being in it.

Selina, I'm so sorry that happened to you, but I guess a reframe there so you said you got six k back. So I guess a reframe there reframe there is the $4,000 lesson that you learned from this. Exactly. And I learned so much.

SM: Let's dive into some of those learnings. I'm guessing, like, due diligence and not blindly trusting.

SH: Yeah. Like, I take accountability for the fact that I decided to work with them and I paid, so, like, that's on me. But I think the big lesson is around referrals, and this is something that I think not a lot of people talk about.

So in, like, a good scenario, like, if you were looking for someone and I referred you to someone and it worked out, that's great. It's like you found someone, they got business, and there's good fights on me. But I find that the percentage of that going well is maybe, like, 50 to 60%. And so now I tread very carefully with referrals because I have been on the side where I have been referred a business, got burnt, and it kind of tarnished my relationship with that person that referred it. And then I've also now been on the flip side where I have referred a company to one of my clients.

And I learned from that experience that I am never taking a referral bonus, nothing like that. If I recommend someone, it's because I genuinely know they're gonna do a good job and not because I'm gonna owe them bucks or whatever. Right. So I don't do that, but I referred someone to a client. And, like, this person is someone I've known for years.

I've had past clients work with them, and so I trusted them. And they just had, like, a lot going on, which is fair enough. And then they hired some new team members, and just things were very chaotic. And so my client had a really shitty experience. That's such a shame.

It was just so tricky. Like, I was just in the middle of trying to manage it. And so now, I guess, my takeaway with referrals is I would still do it. But if you're, like, recommending it to friends or clients, I would recommend you maybe have options, maybe, like, one to two. And then just be like, hey.

I have had past people work with them or I know people that have worked with them, but still please do your due diligence. Yeah. And then at least it's, like, less on you. Yeah. I think the way I kinda positioned it was, like, it was a no brainer to work with that person.

Lots of people have worked with them before. And the thing with referrals is you can't control how other people act. Yeah. You can only control yourself. And so, yeah, it's really, really tricky because when it goes well, it's great.

Yeah. But there are situations where it doesn't, and then it it just puts you in such a weird situation. Yeah. Because you can't control how other people act. And, like, I was literally mediating in the middle.

I spent so much time. I like to make it up for my client, it's so much pro bono work and because I can only control what I do. Right? Yeah. But it's just it's just frustrating.

Yeah. That was, like, a big lesson around referrals. And it's I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying tread carefully. You sort of do your due diligence.

And I guess even in that other scenario you described of, like, having workloads with this other person you could refer and you had all this confidence Yeah. The other thing that is out of your control is you don't know what their situation is, like, today. So as amazing as they can, even the 10 previous times you work with them Yeah. It's that upfront. It's that transparency to your point.

Any other lessons from that crazy PR Yeah. Health scare? I I mean, like, just how to treat your clients or customers. Right? Like, just taking the accountability, you know, owning up to it, and just taking the feedback.

I think she was so defensive. And at some points, I was like, hey. I'm giving you feedback for how to run your business better. And she just wouldn't take it. Yeah.

So I think really learning that. And then, of course, like, throughout all of this, doing your due diligence, like, re if you're getting a referral, don't just trust that one referral. Talk to other people they've worked with and seeing, like, case studies or whatever it is. But, yeah, it's my $4,000 lesson.

Exactly. That reframe, the $4,000 lesson. I feel like that was a bit of a gut punch to me. I feel like, ugh. I feel like the wind's knocked out of me. I mean, even just I mean, you're saying about, like, how you handle that situation from, you know, the agency's perspective, but it's also, like, this sounds like such an extreme situation where even just, like, the basics one zero one, like, show up to the kickoff call. Or if you're gonna be late or if you're on a plane, be like, oh my god. It's so soft. Like, don't just leave them hanging. That's such bad customer experience. Yeah. And in terms of just before we do move on, I'm curious. Have you changed your approach in terms of how much tolerance you now give other people?

Because, like, if we recap that PR story where it was like, they didn't show up to the kickoff, there was, like, sloppy mistakes, grammatical errors on the, like, press release, just one thing after another. Yeah. Like, do you call it out sooner?

SH: Yeah. For sure. I think my tolerance for BS is a lot lower now, and I also just don't feel as bad anymore because I remember that I got burned this one time, and I'm like, no. I I can't just keep letting things slide. So I understand things happen, so I kind of have, like, a one slip up rule. If you have one slip up, then it's okay. Like, I'll give you another chance.

But after that, I'm done. Same. Yeah. We were just saying the same. Like, I I can't have this happen again.

I need to learn from my $4,000 mistake. So funny how much this echoes a little bit from what we're hearing earlier because, like, once it's a mistake, life happens, these things do happen. But but the other thing as well is, like, in this particular instance is so much of it happening right at the very beginning. Mhmm. Because it's like you get one chance to make a first impression.

Yeah. And typically, like, in any partnership relationship, there is a honeymoon period. So that's where you're like, surely you get excited. You've just signed a new client Yeah. Even if things, okay, maybe drop off a cliff a little bit.

But, like, if you're not wowing performing from the get go, there is no hope for afterwards. Yeah. Bit of a lesson as well to anyone who's maybe, a, if you're running an agency yourself, I mean, I don't think any of you need that kind of warning, but maybe from the client perspective to, like, do your due diligence, hold your ground, especially in the beginning, have a one slip up rule. But also, it's like, recalling my experiences as a marketing agency owner, there is an onus on the client to set you up for success. That isn't the case here in your PR story, but, it it kind of there's a it does take two to tango.

It does. It's a two way really. But it goes back to you saying about you paid for 100% the full deposit. Like, that's amazing. Like I think as someone that's a service provider, I'm always very cognizant whenever I work with other service provide providers.

I try to be a possible client. I try to give them everything they need Yeah. Exactly. Set them up for success Right. Do everything on time Yeah.

And, like, to still be handed basically a pile of poop. I'm like, okay. It's like, no hope. Oh, Selena's so crazy. Alright.

So let's dive into building up this side hustle. So this was for your previous business, Recloseted. So tell us a bit more about that, how you launched it. I know that you you built that as a side hustle alongside your main job. There might be listeners here who have still got their day jobs trying to build a sustainable business to allow them to break free of that.

So what was your story there? Yeah. So when I graduated business school, I drank the Kool Aid. I climbed the corporate ladder. And when I was 23, I was working on this multibillion dollar portfolio.

It was like an Internet telecommunications company. And at 23, I was really lucky. I was basically helping my manager pull off this multimillion dollar project. And essentially, it was a rate increase. So basically, everyone's Internet was gonna go up by, like, three to five dollars a month, which doesn't stop.

But if you have, like, millions of customers, it's a multimillion dollar project. And so it was really high stakes, lots of executive attention, drinking out of fire hose, nothing could go wrong. And I really enjoyed how much I learned and the work aspect of it. But obviously, from a values perspective, I was like, I don't think we really need to be increasing this just to, like, look good to shareholders. These are also, like, everyday people.

Like, do we really need to do this? And so I kinda grappled with that. And in the back of my mind, I had always known I wanted to do something on my own, but I just didn't know what. I kinda was sitting on it. I one year into my job, I think the rose colored glasses really fell off and they disappeared.

And I was like, okay, what do I wanna do? What do I wanna do? And there was, like, a few months of me really trying to figure that out. And so if anyone listening also struggles, my advice to you would be just to, like, sit on it and be patient. I think a lot of the times we're like, oh, I could start, like, an Etsy business or I could start, like, a Amazon, like, you know, drop shipping business or whatever.

But I think you really do have to be so passionate about what you do because, as you know, it takes so much hard work and time. You do need to love it. And so I sat on it for a bit, and then I feel like the universe works in magical ways. But one day, I was wearing this polyester bus to work, and I have kind kind of sensitive skin. And so I end up getting, like, a skin rash.

And I was in this meeting. I remember being really itchy. Like, I was flushing up, and I was like, oh my god. I need to go to the washroom. So I went to the washroom, figured out it was polyester.

And I remember my mom had always said polyester is not a good fabric, but it like, as a kid, you're like, whatever. I'm still gonna buy this. But then I went in the washroom, googled it, and I found polyester is essentially made out of crude oil. And so we wouldn't go to the gas station, pour all oil all over our bodies, so why are we doing this? And so that really led me down a deep, dark rabbit hole of what fast fashion is.

And I know you've had past people on about sustainable fashion, and a lot more people know about it now. But eight years ago, it wasn't as big as it is now. Like, most people were still shopping at Zara for twenty one, whatever, the high street. So I think, like, that was a rude awakening. And once I found that out and once I realized family members and the people around me didn't really know about fast fashion and the impacts of it, that lit a fire under me.

And I was like, this is it. This is what I wanna do. And so, yeah, it was just very, very organic. I started researching more about it. I self published an ebook about, like, sustainable fashion and how to be more conscious.

And then, a few months into that, I started meeting some sustainable fashion brands locally. And I knew a lot of them were struggling. They were very creative, like, really wanted to do stuff, very activist y, which is, like, the people I'm drawn to, and business skills and this background. And I was like, let me help you. And then that's how the consultancy was born.

It was very, very organic. My first three clients, I worked with them for free. I did a beta test. I remember being so nervous. I was like, oh, I wonder if they're gonna work with me.

But it was like literally pitching to work for free. Like, who's gonna say no to that? But, yeah, that's how it started. And I obviously still needed to keep my day job because I needed to support myself, but I was doing this at nights on the weekends, and we can kinda talk about managing a side hustle. But that's how it started.

Okay. Amazing. And I'm just curious. This ebook that you produced, did that help to get get you more clients at all? Did you use that as a marketing tool?

A little bit. So that was more consumer facing, and then the consultancy was more b to b. But I think it was just a way for me to, like, stay accountable and learn about this because sustainable fashion can be quite technical. And for someone that wasn't, like, I didn't go to fashion school. I went to business school.

I wanted a way to be able to collect my thoughts and, like, dissect it. So I learned so much about materials, so much about, like, end of life, the whole process of, like, how to create a garment, all that stuff. Mhmm. And so it was just a way for me to be kept accountable, but, of course, clients were also like, oh, that's really cool that you did this. Like, it really shows you care.

So there was definitely an element of that. Credibility to your brand in that as well. So how far did you manage to take Re Closeted? Yeah. So I ran it for over six years.

Yeah. Skilled it to multiple 6 figures. Wow. And, yeah, it was it was really, really good. At which point did you leave your job then?

So I was supposed to leave it earlier, but then COVID happened. So when COVID happened, my job fully became remote. And so if we go back in time, I was, like, about 24 when I started it. And before, you have so much energy. Right.

I I just look back, and I'm like, I don't think I could do what I did then. Because back then, pre COVID, I was going into my job Monday to Thursday, four days a week. My commute was an hour each way. So that's, like, two hours of my life just, like, sitting on this train. And so I did that Monday to Thursday.

And so I would, like, leave the house at eight, get back at, like, six, have dinner, go to a workout. I would work out too. And then I would start working from seven to, like, one or 2AM. Wake up the next day, do it all again. And then on the weekends, sometimes I would, like, hang out with friends on Saturday or something and then work all day Sunday.

And I'm just, I did that for, like, three years. And then when COVID happened or, like, just before COVID happened, I don't think I can do this anymore. I I can't live like this. It's been three years. Like, I I need to sleep more than four hours a day.

And then COVID happened, and then my job went fully remote. And a lot of clients started pulling out because of COVID and, like, how uncertain it was. And I was like, holy shit. I don't think I can go full time. Right.

So I decided to hang on a little bit longer. And then it was when me and my partner moved here three and a half years ago, I was like, okay. This is it. This is the sign. We're gonna move halfway across the world.

I'm gonna do this full time and then give it my all. Yeah. Wow. Incredible. Yeah.

Just on that, anyone happens to be in their twenties listening to this? I think I know my audience pretty well, so there might only be, like, one or two of you out there. But one big piece of advice, like, lean into this energy that you've got because it doesn't last. I love it. I have had some other incredible, entrepreneur stories where there was one I was reflecting on earlier where they built this business when they were in their twenties.

I think maybe even while they were at university, like, very young, and they had all this amazing success. And basically, they've been able to use the profits that they made from this and just keep on reinvesting, reinvesting, and now they've got, like, multiple businesses and it's incredible. It's like, what you were able to get off the ground, I mean, through, like, pure hustle when you did have all that energy when you were in your twenties. When I was really hungry. Oh my god.

So bring us to post COVID, your, like, late twenties were around 30 at this point. Was there a point where you were able then to transition away from the full time Yeah. Day job? So anyone who is trying to quit the day job and trying to make their side hustle the main dish, what worked for you in terms of, a, managing your energies, especially as you are starting to, like, feel that candle burning at both ends, but also from a, I guess, a business development, a sales perspective to get it generally, like, generating enough revenue to be able to quit the day job. Oh my god.

There's so much there. Okay. So I think from a managing the workload perspective, let's start there. I think in my early twenties, I was so hungry and I was ready to grind and hustle. And the one thing looking back I wish I did differently was I wish I worked smarter and harder.

So as hard as it may be because you are time strapped, I would recommend you set aside a couple hours a week just to do the strategy piece. I think because I felt so time constrained, I would just continuously go, go, go, go, and then some of it would just be wasted work. And so it like, really, really set aside two hours to really make sure the strategy is correct. Yeah. And then from a balance perspective, I used to burn out so much.

I mean, just listening to it, it makes sense. Used to burnout so much. I mean, just listening to it, it makes sense. Right? You're sleeping four hours.

You're working two jobs, two demanding jobs, and you're still trying to, like, have a social life, live you. How I would manage it now and how I try to do it now is I really try to be more preventative versus reactive. Yeah. With burnout, I would just, like, work, work, work, work, burnout, fall off a cliff, rest, and then, like, have enough energy, work, work, work, work, work again, and then fall off again. And every single time I burnt out, I would also beat myself up over it because, like, it comes across as you can't take care of yourself.

So now I'm more preventative. So what that looks like is every morning and every evening, I ask myself on a scale of one to 10 how over how burnt out or how exhausted I am. And I think that check-in's really good because otherwise, again, it just sneaks up on you, and then you're burnt out and you haven't planned for it. And the thing that really, really resonates with me is the fact that your body needs to rest regardless, and so you either rest on your own terms or your body will force you to rest. And so the preventative piece is important.

So if you're at, like, a six or a seven or an eight, you know things are getting dire. You're about to fall off the cliff. So implement some self care. And I think the thing with self care is it doesn't have to look like again, it have to look like going to the facial or the spa. It's like, I I like to do like, I have, like, a little menu on my phone and I have, like, low lift things, medium lift things, and high lift things.

So low lift things are literally things that are easy and free so just like sleeping more, walking outside, eating better food, you know, all those things, meditating. Meditating is huge. And then the medium thing is just like doing a face mask, going to workout class, going you know, maybe doing a staycation, seeing your friends. And then, like, the high lift thing is maybe actually going on holiday, doing this and all those things. And so I think planning that out in advance before you're burnt out is really important.

And then when you feel overwhelmed, you can take a look, pick something from the menu. And I really think self care is not selfish. Like, you cannot pour from an empty cup, so you really do have to take care of yourself. So that would be, like, my two biggest lessons learned. Really taking, like, time for strategy, but also taking time to take care of yourself and doing it in a way where it is sustainable.

You can do bits and bobs every day, and it doesn't have to just sneak up on you. Love that. Love that. And this really ties into the mission of your show. Right?

This is advice I wish I was given sooner. This ties in so perfect. This is like big sis energy. This is like the caring kind of mom just like, I've been there. I've been through it myself.

Yeah. A couple of reflections come to mind for me. One on the make some time for the strategy, had exactly the same conversation with another first time founder who's leaving their corporate job as well. And they and they just you feel this pressure and it's so normal. And first of all, you know, I wanna validate that.

I'm like, it's so normal. It feels like you're free falling without a safety net. You've gone from having this monthly paycheck and now, what do I do? And then it's the easy thing to do is to just kind of flit around like a headless chicken. But as counterintuitive to your point as it may, I use just to put a bit more structure around, because it is like structured to the chaos, is the eighty twenty rule.

Right? So the Pareto principle of, like, literally translating the eighty twenty to what the discussion we were having was, like, if you have ten hours in a day, literally two of those eight hours, let's just ten because it's an easy round number. Right? But, like, take those two hours in the morning. Right?

Like, have a slow easy breakfast. Yeah. Think about it. Braindump. Plan it all out to then set up those next eight hours for, you know, better success.

Yeah. And then the preventive really resonated as well. And what you brought to mind was how we take better care of our phones than we do ourselves. Mhmm. And how we don't, not all of us at least anyway, don't let our phones get down to that, like, 1% battery and, like, drain it all out.

We make sure that, like, we plug in our phones overnight, they get a proper recharge, and then we're using them properly the next day. So we need to take some of that for ourselves as well, so that we're not just, like, crashing and burning. I love that. That really resonated. Yeah.

From business development side of things, what worked for you to help your side gig take over the main job? Okay. So great. So that's a great transition piece. I'll I'll get really tactical on the sales piece, and then we can kinda talk about, like, the actual transition as well because I have a lot to say there.

Mhmm. So from a biz dev perspective, if we look at your sales funnel, right, traffic, nurture, conversion, I think the most amount like, the more things you can do for lead gen, the better, but, obviously, you wanna do it well. So one of my top things for lead gen SEO, because at the time, eight years ago, there weren't a lot of people in this space. So I if you search up sustainable fashion consultant, like, I was the top thing that popped up, and I got so many leads from that. So SEO is not dead.

It's still so important, especially CEO today. Right? Exactly. Especially now it is. Right?

And so that's so important. Get that set up ASAP because it takes time. And then the second thing that was really, really great also was referrals, ironically. So I I do a good job with my clients, so I would be referred. And so that was great.

Nice. And I think the three beta client with that I worked for free, that got me more business. Because they were like, oh my god. This girl, Selina, she's great. Like, go work with her.

And so that was kind of my first foray into getting my first few clients. Fantastic. And then social media, like, content creation. I previously my podcast, I rebranded it recently, but previously, it was called Recosited Radio. I did it for five years.

I did it pre COVID. Wow. Scaled it to one of the top 5% of podcasts in the world. Wow. And, obviously, that brings a lot of leads as well.

Yeah. And I find from a sales funnel perspective, the podcast is more on the nurturing side. I would jump on with sales calls with people, and I found that if people listen to the podcast, it was so easy to convert. It was like butter. It was so easy.

Right. Because, like, we built up trust and credibility. Yeah. So I started doing things where I would send people, like, podcast episodes beforehand so that I could start to warm them up. But, yeah, just from a biz stuff perspective, it really is just, like, doing the content, doing the SEO, going to the conferences, networking, referrals.

Like, it's just all the things. What comes to mind is there you've already listed, like, five different channels. Yeah. So, like, as amazing as they were, this kinda ties back into, like, your time management and especially if you do have a full time day job as well. Yeah.

So how do you go about prioritizing?

Yeah. So that's the thing I also preach now, sustainable business, as you know. And so I'm very cognizant that you should not go out and do all that right now. That's gonna burn you out.

And instead, you need to take it piece by piece because nowadays to stand out, things need to be done really well. So I would start with SEO for sure because like I mentioned, it takes time for the bots to crawl...

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