The New Rules for Success with Entrepreneur & Team GB Powerlifter: Jodie Cook

Strategy & Tragedy: CEO Stories with Steph Melodia is the best business podcast for curious entrepreneurs featured in the UK's Top 20 charts for business shows.

Hosted by Stephanie Melodia, Strategy & Tragedy features candid interviews with entrepreneurs who have scaled - and failed - their businesses - sharing their lessons in entrepreneurship along the way. From Simon Squibb of 'What's Your Dream?' Internet fame to Lottie Whyte of Sunday Times Top 100 Fastest-Growing company, MyoMaster. From exited founders like Nick-Telson Sillett to subject matter experts like Alex Merry in the public speaking arena and Matt Lerner, the GOAT of Growth.

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In this week's episode, Stephanie Melodia interviews Jodie Cook, the Forbes 30 Under 30 Founder of Coachvox, the business following the 7-figure exit of her own social media agency, which she started fresh out of uni. Jodie is a Forbes senior contributor with 19M+ article reads. She has also competed in powerlifting for Team GB 9 times and lived in 35 cities as a digital nomad. (Everything she own fits in one suitcase!)

Watch on YouTube via the link below or keep reading for the transcript, where Steph and Jodie cover:

• Five surprising ways to achieve your goals

• Jodie's business journey and key lessons learnt

• The power of manifesting

• Playing your ace cards

• And so much more.

SM: Jodie, why should people stick around and listen to this episode?

JC: We are gonna cover the counterintuitive way to achieve all your business goals, live your dream life without all the hustle and grind and all that grapft that everyone believes that you have to have in place to achieve magic. You just don't need to do that. We're gonna cover all of the stuff around that. And I feel like anyone watching is going to leave feeling this big sense of relief that they already have the answers. They don't need extra podcasts, books (apart from this one!) They have it all within them.

SM: Nice. Love it. Alright. Sounds good. Let's dive in. So what does a counterintuitive method to achieving your goals actually look like?

JC: So I think what everyone believes they should do is they should start working, carry on, head towards this future that they might not know straight away, but they're gonna take one step at a time and they're gonna get there. And I think that way of doing things is actually wrong, and it doesn't really get you anywhere other than distracted. And I for sure started off this way.

When I first started my first business, I was 22. I was fresh out of university in a graduate scheme, and I was like, I just wanna be self employed because I wanna work for my laptop, and I want to travel the world, and I want to just kind of do that online business thing and figure out a way of making it happen.

And then as I started getting clients, I did not have the end in mind whatsoever. I just took step by step. It was like, we took a client on board because they wanted to work with us. I took a team member on board because they seemed alright. And then I built this business up to the point where I was three years into it, and I had not set out I had not achieved any of the goals I'd set out to achieve because I was trapped in Birmingham, UK.

I hadn't taken a holiday in three years even though I set up the business to travel. Mhmm. And everything relied on me, and it was like, why am I doing this? I should have just got a job. I would have had more freedom in a job than starting my own business.

And so I feel like it was that moment when I started thinking there's a different way of doing this. And that's when helped actually by Michael Gerber's The E Myth and Tim Ferris's Four Hour Workweek, I started planning what my dream life and business looked like and then worked back from there instead.

SM: Yeah. Amazing. Alright. So there's a few things I wanna double click on there. One is you remind me of a recent LinkedIn post that I saw, which was people should stop building prisons and build businesses instead. And I think what you've said will resonate with so many people if depending on where you're at in your business journey, you've actually built this prison around you with not being able to take a break, not being able to take holidays, or even if you can achieve that, you're still online. You're still thinking about it. You're not fully switched off. So that that definitely resonates. And for context, fill in the gaps if people aren't aware already, you started a social media agency, which you then scaled and exited. So we'll talk about that journey as well.

But let's stick on this theme of this counterintuitive approach to achieving your goals. So what stuck with you from those particular books that you read at that time? How did you approach things differently?

JC: I basically visualized my dream life. It was partly it was partly the four hour work week and thinking, I just want to travel. I know that I want to travel. I know that I want to have a business that facilitates my life and not a business that costs me my life.

And then the first exercise I actually did was I thought, okay. In practice, like, I'm a very practical, logical, step by step structured person. Yeah. So I was like, this dream life, it sounds really airy fairy, but how do I actually turn it into what I do every day, every other day, every week, every month, every year? Mhmm.

And so I've mapped that all out. It was like, what do I wanna do every day? What do I wanna do? Like, every if every month, I wanna have a city break, if every three months, I wanna have a month away, if every day, I wanna go and train twice, and then I wanna eat ice cream, and then I wanna have to date, because, like, all the stupid things that seem like really small things, I had them all down on paper. Nice.

And then after that, I then costed it out once I had the entire plan where I looked at it and I thought, if I lived this exact life, how happy would I feel? And I kind of I feel like I really felt it. Like, I I stared at that piece of paper and imagined me living that exact life in with everything in that exact cadence. And when I crossed it out, I was honestly amazed that it does not cost hardly anything. Yep.

It was like, this is so achievable. Yeah. You think that you have to be a millionaire to live like a millionaire, but you don't. You just don't because most of the best things are actually free. Yeah.

I saw something on that as well. I think there's, something I wanna kind of extract from what you said there is actually, like, the permission to stop and think about what you actually want and what your dream life looks like. And I think especially with social media comparisonitis, the the kind of the green eyed monster comes out. It's like, what's it's so cliche, but it is like, what is your version of success? Does that mean monthly city breaks?

Does that mean that your ice cream like, what does that mean to you? And then converting that into those practical steps as you say, a genuine another buzzword, but I genuinely believe it is one of the most empowering exercises because you are genuine taking back that power. What do you want? What do we need to achieve it? Break it down.

And then exactly as you say, to a lot of people's surprise, it turns out sometimes actually doesn't cost as much as you thought it might be because you haven't even dared to go there and give yourself that permission to explore what your dream life would look like anyway. So absolutely love that. Do you prescribe to manifesting? You're saying about stopping and visualizing. Kind of.

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I'm in the early stages of that. I don't know all the ins and outs, but I know for sure that it's worked when I've done it. But I think that it all starts with starting from the end and then working backwards.

Mhmm. And if I look back at anything I've ever achieved in my whole life, it's because I thought, what do I actually want? I created the stillness and the space to be able to think, what do I actually want? And then really pictured it in my mind. Mhmm.

Because this is the magical thing about your imagination. No one can stop you doing anything. If I imagine myself going on stage in a powerlifting competition I'm a powerlifter, by the way. Yeah. And lifting up a 200 kilo deadlift, no one can stop me doing that.

It can happen in my mind. It's not like you need a permission to a permission slip to imagine something. But when you do it, you then start to really feel the kind of person you have to be to be able to do that thing. Such a powerful driver, isn't it? How we self identify.

It's magic. It is magic. But this has happened with powerlifting competitions where I've visualized it step by step, every single part of it. And then when I've actually turned up on the day, it's felt less like I'm going and lifting the weights and more like I'm stepping into a version of myself that's already done it. Yeah.

And it's mind blowing. Love it. And someone, I talked about this at at one point. And someone messaged me and said, but does this take away from the joy that you feel doing it? And I don't think it does.

I think, actually, it makes you feel superhuman because you're like, if I can do this, what else can I do? Cool. And then you apply it to other things. Yeah. And this is the same with traveling.

This is the same with selling my agency as well. It all followed the same pattern. You accomplished what you perceived what you conceived in your mind in the first place. Reminds me of a really good book from a concentration camp survivor, and she basically talks about that as well. She's now become this she's now become sort of this amazing, like, neuroscientist.

And she's always about she was like, the one thing the Nazis couldn't take away from me was my break my imagination, what I could so she kinda created these fantasies in her mind as a obviously, as a coping mechanism during this horrific event, but now she's kinda taken that extreme tragedy and used that power of neuroscience to what you're saying. It sounds similar to Man's Search for Meaning, Viktor Frankl. I read that one. Okay. Cool.

Same for concentration camps. And he said, you can have everything taken away from you apart from your power to choose. And it was even though he was going through the most horrific things, it was like, I can still choose. And it was down to there was something like every single day, he got this one, like, really tiny piece of bread that he had that was like his lunch. And he's like, I can choose when I eat that bread.

They can't take that away from me. I'm gonna put it in my pocket, and I'm gonna have it when I choose to have it. And it was like this this element of just, no. There's something here that I can I can do? And it's that importance of agency, isn't it, as humans knowing that we have got a choice, that we have got control.

And it kind of loops back to what we're saying before about building a business and not a prison. Right? Like, you don't wanna put yourself in these situations where you're trapped. So you mentioned the power lifting. So I know that you competed with team GB.

Was it nine times in power lifting? Yes. Exactly. Check that. Congratulations.

So the inevitable connection there, as I'm sure you've been asked many times before, but, of course, the athleticism and entrepreneurial connection. So how has one helped you become better at the other? Oh, there's so much crossover. Yeah. I think every single week, there is nothing that could happen in business that would be as scary as the weights I'm lifting in the afternoon.

So therefore, it means Put it into perspective. There's no email. There's no meeting. There's no, like, suddenly someone said this. It's like, it's I don't care.

It's so it's so pales into in insignificance compared to the weight that's on the deadlift on the bar. Wow. And then, also, I think powerlifting or just any sport that I do is a way of switching off to work stuff. And I feel like it's when my subconscious mind really takes over and really just sort stuff out. So I'll find you know how it is.

You never think of your best ideas when you're sat at your laptop. Never. In a million years, you just think of them in coffee shops and on the beach and when you're walking around. And I get them in the gym. So it's because I'm away, and I've I've handled whatever I've handled in the morning.

And then I'm training, and my mind is totally switched off to work because I don't check my phone while I'm lifting, and I don't even think about work subconsciously. But my default mode network I know is working away. It's solving problems. It's doing all that stuff. It's creating patterns.

And then the moment I get back at my laptop, it's like, oh, I have all the answers. And I don't think I would have that otherwise because it's so easy to just never switch off and keep going on that prison in that kind of work conveyor belt that we think is the thing that we should be doing, like working all the time, putting all the hours in. Yeah. But I don't think that's the way. If you never lift your head, you never get that perspective.

So good recommendation on that. I love it. That's incredible. I read that you're more likely to become a millionaire than to run a half marathon. So apparently, the stats on this is the global world population of millionaires is 1%, which speaks to our current capitalist society.

0.1% have run a half marathon. So I know that you used to run a lot before. Obviously, it's super fit, super athletic. As someone who falls into that 0.1% category and who has done kind of both of these things, had business success, physical success, we need to kinda get deeper into this kind of success mindset. So we touched on, obviously, the visualization.

What else? Quick one. So sorry to interrupt. So I'm sure that you are on the edge of your seat listening to this interview, at least I hope so. I'm so aware of all the other podcasts that are already out there.

So the fact that you've decided to tune in and listen to this one is not lost on me. If you can just go that one step further and hit that follow or subscribe button, doesn't cost a thing, takes two seconds. Now is your chance to do that. It means so much. Really appreciate your support.

Thank you so much. Now let's get back to the interview. What else? Like, I love, you know, the practical tips and tricks. What else can you talk to on, like, achieving the goals that you set for yourself?

I didn't know that about those stats around millionaires and half marathons. But when I used to run half marathons, I think I really liked that it was so finite. It's It's like there's a distance. It's 13.1 miles. You know what that looks like because you've run one mile, so therefore you times by 13.1, and that's what it looks like after that.

And there's the finish line. There's the magic finish line. Yeah. So I think it's very similar. I think it's very similar.

I think if someone is really good at running half marathons, they can probably be a millionaire as well by adapting that exact technique they use and and working backwards. So when I used to be a runner, I would think about the race, think about the time I wanted to get, visualize the finish line. I learned this from Paula Radcliffe's book. So when I was running, I read read her book. It's actually called How to Run, which is, you know, useful.

And, she said when she's got a race in the diary, she will visualize the finish line. She will visualize the actual time that she wants to see above. She will visualize the the faces of her family and friends, like, cheering her on, the weather, the sights that she's gonna see, every single thing she'll have in her mind. And then when she's working backwards from there, she's planning out, okay. So if I wanna get this time, how fast do I need to run one mile?

How fast do I need to run a 10 k? How fast do I need to like, how much do I need to overreach before I do that half marathon? And it's almost like because she has this feeling of knowing that that time is gonna happen, it's inevitable. All this is gonna happen because I've seen it in my mind. When she works backwards, she's not really grafting.

She's not really kind of, like She's She's just asking. Hard. It's just taking that aligned action towards that outcome that you believe is true. Yeah. So then if you believe I'm I'm a millionaire, I'm gonna be a mill like, either I'm gonna be a millionaire or I'm a a millionaire, whichever one feels like you can grasp it the most Yeah.

Then it's like, okay. So if I'm a millionaire, what have I done to get here? Yeah. How much revenue have I had? And then what did I need to what revenue do I need to have in this year and then this year and then this year?

And then what kind of service is that? What kind of customers are paying that? And then I think it all makes sense from working backwards. And then not only that, but that you then know exactly what you need to do. Mhmm.

Because it it just centers it. Yeah. So it's like, find what you wanna achieve, visualize it, feel it, and then think, who do I have to be to get that? And then put the actions in place from there. Yeah.

I love it. It's no wonder what the business world takes so much inspiration from the world of athleticism. There's so many so much overlap as you say yourself. And you remind me again how, I actually saw is it Tamara no. Not Tamara.

Johnson Thompson? Katerina? Johnson Thompson? Is that right? Yeah.

The head the athlete. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

She spoke, at an event a while ago, and, just yeah. She made it sound so simple. And it was very much, this is what I gotta do. This is my training plan. This is my nutrition, my meal plan.

All that's left is to execute on it. And I do this every day, and it's just kind of putting in the rest and following yeah. It's that's exactly what she said. She was like, success then becomes inevitable. Okay.

Two things I wanna talk to you about. So one is operating from that state of future self. Yep. And two, something you said there that got me excited was around normalizing success. Yep.

So I have come across some of the most interesting, successful people that I've had the pleasure of meeting. They really it really is, like, no big deal to them. Like, the achievements that they've had, whether it's business exits, whether it's the amount of money that they turn over, it's just so normalized. It's just genuinely, yeah, this is just my life. This is normal.

This is how it's supposed to be. So I'd love to get your reaction to that before we talk about the future thing. Yeah. Sorry. There's a lot I wanna talk about.

So the biggest the biggest thing the biggest kind of professional achievement I've had is selling my agency, for sure. And I had the inkling that I wanted to sell it. And then the thing that I did to make it certain in my mind was I talked to other people who had already done that thing that I wanted to do. Mhmm. Because I think the moment you hang out with people who don't think it's possible Yeah.

They'll tell you that they don't think it's possible, and that will infect your mind. Mhmm. And then you'll start acting like it's not possible, and then you'll never achieve it. So as soon as I realized that was what I wanted to do and I set that intention, first of all, the thing I did actually was I wrote myself a pretend check. One social media agency to the perfect buyer, I wrote the amount I wanted to sell for.

I wrote the date, and I signed it, the perfect buyer, and a big swirly signature. How close was the date you wrote to the day you actually sold the agency? Oh, so so we sold for the exact amount I wrote on the check. Wow. I met the buyer within two weeks of the date that we that I wrote on on it.

Was there any importance to the date that you set, or was it just a random date? Random. It was at some point in the future, maybe about six months in the future. I love how the brummy just came out in you there a little bit. Like, this is random.

Was it? That's so crazy. But it was like, I wrote it. I stared at it. Like, I I stared at this pretend check for a long, long time and imagined it coming true.

And then I was like, imagine it. Like, I I didn't even we didn't they didn't buy us with a check. It was just a bank transfer. Oh, yeah. But it doesn't it doesn't matter.

It's just that it's what it signifies. They didn't give you a token like giant check. So then but then I've I've felt it. Like, I really felt it everywhere. So painful.

I kind of I also visualize myself telling other people, like, oh, yeah. Just some way agency. And I actually visualize myself on stage saying like, telling the story Yeah. Wow. And then writing the book about it, which I then wrote as well about that.

But So sorry. Just on that note. So what would you say to the skeptics? Because as much as I'm loving it and I'm so here for it and I totally prescribe, it's not lost on me that there may be some listeners who are like, okay. Like, this is luck.

Coincidence. It sounds a bit woo woo. What would you say to them? I think they'll never make it. Good luck to this.

Big one. Yeah. Kind of. Because it's like I mean, it's almost like, what do you want? Okay.

Oh, it's not possible. Okay. Great. It's not possible. You've just proved it's not possible.

Well done, loser. Right. So, like, I'd rather just believe it was true. And then, yeah, if it doesn't come to pass, whatever, but I'd rather do that. I'd rather live that way around.

Love it. Sure. Mic drop. Perfect. Sorry.

Get back to what you're saying. Sorry. So yeah. So I I knew in my mind that it was, it was slightly possible because I'd seen it in my imagination. But then the thing I had to do after that was find people who had actually done it in real life.

So I met up with someone who she hadn't sold her agency, but she'd bought an agency. So she's in that world. Then I met up with someone else who I knew had sold their agency, who I was kinda vaguely connected to from some network thing a long time ago. And then the those people, it was, like, those two, one other, they put me in touch with a consultant who prepared agencies for sale. And then he put me in touch with a broker who actually sold agencies.

And when I saw this guy, he walked me through the process that's kind of like the Katerina Johnson Thompson process where it's and the half marathon process where it's like, okay. This is what we do. It's gonna take about six months. In the first month, we're gonna write a one pager about your agency to sell it to kind of, like, position it for sale. Then you're gonna meet potential buyers.

You're gonna have chemistry meetings. Then you're gonna have second meetings. Then we're gonna have negotiations. Then we'll do the final heads of terms, then we'll then we'll we'll process it, and it'll be legal, and then it'll be all be done. So step by step, what's gonna happen?

And just the the whole idea that he knew what he was doing. He'd seen it before. They did about six deals every single year. It was like, this is routine. This is routine.

Similar to the powerlifting competition, it was like, all I now have to do is just just follow along with this process because I know I know it's possible. I've seen it in my mind. This guy's got the the the way, and therefore, it's gonna happen. Incredible. And there is so much confidence that's instilled when there is, like, the tried and tested recipe for it.

Like Yeah. This is what you have to do I think following the recipe. Yeah. It was like that. But I feel like the most important thing was that because I had that unwavering belief that it was going to happen, it then dictated my actions.

Yeah. So during that period, I was so just heads down. It was like, do you wanna come to the park? No. I'm selling my agency.

Do you wanna do this? No. And it's so Amazing. It just it gives you such tunnel vision. So perfect segue.

You've handed on a paper for me there because one of the things I really wanted to talk to you about as well was the importance of focus, especially with my entrepreneurial listeners where especially if it's your first time in business and, like, me, perhaps, if you had a career beforehand and suddenly you've been sort of, like, unleashed, you've got this new found freedom, suddenly there's all this abundant opportunity and all these things you can do. And because maybe you don't quite know the way and what works, you say yes to everything, and you hustle and knew this. I'm sure you've kinda did similar in the early days for you as well. The art of strategy is not what you say yes to. It's what you say no to.

So I'd love to get your your take on the importance of focus, but also, again, like, practical tips, methodologies as to how can you give us maybe, like, some decision making frameworks on, like, how do we know, like, what to pick and choose and say no to without feeling that FOMO and then dealing with that inner guilt as well because we don't wanna let people down. So Yeah. I wanna come onto that with you. First of all, I think you should let down as many people as possible. I'm here to make friends.

I'm here to make enemies. Yeah. Because I think the people who really matter actually don't that's not how they see it. Cool. They want you to do your best.

They want you to be your best. So, yeah, I don't think I really worry about letting people down anymore, but I probably once did. Yeah. But I feel like people pleasing How did you overcome if we go back to that time, however long ago it was? Like Okay.

Last few months probably. I feel like I'm a recovering people pleaser. And it's it comes with a sense of focus, but it also comes with I think it comes with a sense of knowing which phase you're in. Mhmm. So I think that every piece of business advice is either really good or really bad, and it but it can't be both at once.

Mhmm. But it's it matters what stage you're in. So if someone said, say yes to everything, knock on doors, see what's possible, there is a time and a place for that. I feel like I started my career doing that, experimenting. But then once you've got that plan, that thing that you know that is going to work for you or that thing that is going to get you in the direction of that vision that you've got, then it's when you say no.

Mhmm. And I feel like everyone can do anything they want, but they can't do everything they want. And because you and me probably both have this, we feel like we can get behind so many missions. It's like you hear about some problem to be solved, and you're like, let me at it. And before we know it, we've bought a domain name.

We've we've registered the company. We've got a business partner. We've started all this stuff. And it's like, no. Stop.

Like, we have to stop. And then Yeah. I feel like I just will never underestimate the intensity required to do something well. And therefore, I just don't wanna do all these random things because I'm a vegan speaker. So is that another lesson from the world of athleticism, sports, the training, or something you already sort of naturally had?

Potentially. I just if I had a billboard in front of me, if I had a post it note in front of me, it's like, do less, focus, ignore everyone, you know the plan, stick to it, keep going, trust. And it's everything that just narrows it. Yeah. Because I just don't want to hear that a friend's like, I've got loads of friends with YouTube channels and really big YouTube channels.

And so if I hang out with them, it's so natural that you're going to suddenly want to have a YouTube channel, and you're gonna wanna do their thing. And then it's like, no. Let me do my thing. Let's just let's just stick to my thing because I know this is gonna work. Let them do their thing.

I'm gonna support them. I'm gonna be so happy for them, but it doesn't mean that I need to have their life because I know what I want. Yeah. I think that resonates with, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that is resonating with 100% of my listeners on this for sure. For sure.

I think all of us need that post it note in front of our face saying, focus, do less. Easier said than done. So how have you kind of been able to actually focus? So I try really hard to notice in my body when something is coming up that means I'm in some way feeling impatient or anxious or scrappy or something. And, you know, you probably know the physical signs of this happening.

It might be, like, in your heart, you feel a bit flustered. It might be you notice your heart rate's gone up. It might be that you kind of feel a bit like you get a headache or your head gets bit fuzzy, and my head will get so fuzzy when I'm not clear on something. So then for me, it's noticing when I'm on my laptop and I'm in those loops of, oh, check this, check that, check that, like, fighting going for the next dopamine hit. And there's always a dopamine hit to have because there's always some social media platform with some notification for you.

So when I see that happening, I'm like, shut my freaking laptop. No. Put it as far away from me as possible, and then I would literally just sit there and breathe and meditate and be like, get back like, kinda come back to my breath, come back to my body, and then think this is like, what do I actually want, and who do I actually wanna be? And then reconnect to that higher purpose, higher vision that then makes everything else all make sense. I think that, again, relates to a 100% of what everyone goes through in the world of work at the moment.

Another book actually, I didn't expect to be, like, citing so many different, books during this conversation, but 4,000 by Oliver Burkeman. Wow. Like, life changing. And there was this one particular line that stuck with me, which was you need to break the addiction to taking things off your to do list. Yeah.

And I think if you are, like, high achieving, that addicted to busyness, and, like, I've not hands up. Like, I haven't overcome this myself. Right? That that feeling that you it's almost like that that really jittery, unsatisfying feeling. It's just that kind of the busyness, but not actually being productive.

I'm sure all of us have I've been in that situation many, many, many times. You get to the end of your day and you're like, I feel like I've done lots of stuff, but, like, how have I actually moved the needle? So two things you could do is if you feel like your inbox is getting on top of you, select all, delete, and then anything that's important will come back. That's brave. That's a bold move.

But is it though? Is it? Because if it's if it's controlling your mind and it's not giving you the blank space, you don't need to respond to everyone. Yeah. If someone really needs you, they will find another way of getting to you or they will follow you up.

And then if your to do if you're looking at your to do list and it's controlling you, freaking rip it up. It can't it can't Get rid of it. It can't dictate how you spend your time. And then I feel like the real stuff will bubble up to the surface, but sometimes we need the space the blank space to be able to realize what's important. Yeah.

Super important. On that note, shameless self plug, check out my interview with Hector Hughes of Unplugged because Yes. You might we've actually got an exclusive pass Unplugged. Yes. Discount code on that as well.

So head to that episode, even just a copy. The code, you get 50 off your next unplugged retreat so you can switch off and tune into what's important to you. Smooth. I like that. Two headlines from, I know that you're also, like, such a prolific writer, of course.

You've, like, authored a million books, power lifted, sold your business, so definitely on track to world domination. But I read two particular headlines that really stood out to me, which was stop waiting to be saved and stop overcomplicating success. So I would love for you to expand on both of those. I think how I started out trying to get people to notice me was I knocked on doors and asked them to and kind of asked to be picked and asked to be chosen. And one specific thing I did this with was book publishers.

And I think before I had a book published, I probably emailed, like, a 100 different people about getting a book published. And then the first time I actually got a book published so all of that led nowhere. The first time I actually got a book published, the book publisher emailed me and asked me if I would write this book that she could then publish under this huge publishing house. Wow. And the reason that the the power flipped, the reason that that whole relationship flipped was because I had just thought, forget this whole knocking on doors.

I'm just gonna write my own book. I don't need anyone else. And so my first, my first, like, six books, they were kinda more like they were small books. They were they were called the 50 great ideas series. It was 50 great ideas for LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, digital PR, and SEO.

Nice. And it was those oh, maybe I didn't say Facebook. Anyway, there were six books, but it was all to do with promoting my agency. So we I wrote them. We had them printed, and we would hand them out to potential clients, and they would get in touch.

And that would be how we get got a lot of clients. So they were on Amazon. And the one that was 50 great ideas for Instagram, a book publisher had been researching books about Instagram because she wanted someone to be her author for this Instagram book. She'd found mine, and then she'd got in touch to say, hey. We've got this book idea, Instagram rules, it's called.

Do you want to write it? And I'm like, yeah. So the the publishing contract came without me even trying, but it was because it was like you can't you can't create things from here. You're trying to get here, but you're here. It's almost like you have to put yourself here, and then you're on the same energetic frequency as all the things you want to attract it, and and then you attract them in.

It's like it doesn't work the other way around. Yeah. And it took me so long to learn that lesson. Wow. And that does speak to both of those headlines.

Right? Like, stop waiting to be saved and stop overcomplicating success. Mhmm. It's actually, like, take action. No one's gonna come and save you.

Yep. And and don't overcomplicate it. Yeah. That's what you wanna do. It speaks into that clarity of the goals.

So if you've created that space to know what you want in the first place, you don't need to overcomplicate it. You don't need to fall into that victim mentality. Take action. Be proactive. And then what you're saying about the energetic frequencies, that kinda links back into the manifesting.

Right? So you're saying we're we're just getting into it, but I think we've got a queen in the manifesting. Right? So you're saying we're already just getting into it, but I think we've got a queen of the that. Yeah.

Well, I think I feel like you don't you don't get what you want. You get what you are. So it's like, if you oh, I want to be a writer. Okay. Well, you're gonna keep wanting to be a writer if you don't do anything about it.

But if you're like, I'm a writer. What does a writer do? They write. So then you write your book, and then all of a sudden, you are a writer, and now you have a publisher as well. Incredible.

This is similar with relationships as well. So, a really good friend wants to meet his, like, future wife, and I was like, describe it to me. Like, let's manifest her. Just describe her to me. He sent me probably the longest WhatsApp message I've ever received of all her, like, qualities and what she's like as a person.

Like, he's he had really thought about this. Wow. And so I looked at that message, and I was like, this is all possible. But what's on her list? What's the kind of guy that you have to be to manifest a woman like that?

Because she's she sounds great, but are you are you on that energetic frequency? You. And then he's like, oh, yeah. And so the if you want if you wanna attract a high value man, be a high value woman. If you wanna attract like, it's it's the same.

It's you you attract what you already are. Mhmm. And then that maybe changed how we thought about it a little bit because you can't just have a list without being it yourself. Yeah. Yeah.

Super powerful. That makes total sense. As I'm listening to you and hearing about all your incredible successes, I can't help but wonder how, you know, hindsight is a wonderful thing and how, again, sort of I guess it's almost like the normalizing success thing with you as well. Right? How people like you do make it look easy.

Mhmm. Because to you, it is. It's it's again that normalizing. It's like, yep. This is what I wanna do.

I went and did it. Yeah. But, of course, the reality isn't like that. So I'm curious to get into a little bit of the nitty gritty around, have there been any challenges or moments of self doubt where it wasn't as easy and straightforward as it maybe seems on the surface? Like, a turn.

Yeah. And and it was reassuring. Yeah. Always. Like, I'm I figure I think I'm just figuring out as I go along.

And then because I write along, because I process a lot, I look back and I'm like, oh, that led to that. It's like the Steve Jobs quote about you can only join the dots looking backwards. Exactly. Going forward. Nothing makes sense at the time at all.

Yeah. But then I think one of my favorite books is Oprah Winfrey, what I know for sure. This is just like a massive book recommendation, so I love this. So amazing. And so that book is awesome.

And that line, just that what I know for sure is something I go back to time and time again. And every time I journal, that is the line at the top. What do I know for sure? So when something is going wrong in business or training or anything else, it's like, what do I know for sure? And I try and find the truth.

And so when I was trying to sell my agency thinking, is this possible? Like, what what's going on? And then it's like, what do I know for sure? People have done this. Someone in the world has figured this out.

And there was a time when my, husband and I co wrote this series of kids books because because why not? We came up with the idea on an airplane, and then we were like, yeah. Let's write them. And we wanted to find someone who could sponsor the books into every primary school in The UK because we have this big vision of giving every kid an entrepreneurial role model because that's what the books are about. Amazing.

And the what I know for sure was there is one person who could just say yes to this, and all we have to do is find that one person. And everyone else in the world who says it's not possible, doesn't matter, and everyone else in the world who we're gonna meet who's gonna say no eventually doesn't matter. All that matters is that we keep going until we get to that one person. Yeah. And I think that question really helps me because you can then find the thing that's true, and then that helps you ignore everything else.

The evidence to back up your idea and it can reassurance that it's possible. Yeah. And especially Especially if you get someone else saying to you. Like, I avoid naysayers at all costs, and I don't really hang out with people who would try and kind of put a lid on me. Yeah.

Of course. But if you do get that and if someone's like, oh, you can't do it, then really, it's like, no. You can't do it. Don't project your feelings of, of, like, not being able to make it happen on me because I can do it, and I'm gonna get away from this as far as possible. Yeah.

There's a technique actually that a friend taught me that her dad taught her when she was really young, and it is this bell jar technique. So you imagine that you've got this bell jar on you and all the, like, kind of the nose, all the negativity, all the stuff, it's, like, just bouncing off you. And you're there untouchable because you've got your bell jar and nothing can reach you. And I've done that so many times. Nice.

Nice. I feel like visualization and and using your brain is is such a powerful, skill that you have as well. It sounds like such a natural kind of, like, superpower of yours. You mentioned obviously, we've mentioned we covered so many amazing book recommendations already, but are there any other other shows, podcasts, other individuals, any other external influences that have also helped and you just mentioned there, like, your friend's dad. Right?

Any other kind of positive influences that have helped you on your path to success? So many. Yes. So the friend whose dad taught her lots of stuff, he actually taught he he sent her to, like, a mindset camp or something when when she was, like, five. Oh my god.

Amazing. When she learned a bunch of that stuff. Wow. And she's called Carrie Green. She runs a female entrepreneur association, and we've been friends since 2012.

And she's, for all that time, produced a podcast episode every single Tuesday. So this is, what, thirteen years now. It hasn't missed one at all. Oh. And has has she really taught me the power of, like, consistency, just showing up because you've got this overriding mission, which is to support women building their businesses.

And then she's just been doing that again and again and again. And she's got one of the most successful long term businesses of anyone I know. Mhmm. And then I've recently started co hosting a podcast called The Future with Chris Do who was in the personal branding space way before it was called. Yeah.

And he's just awesome. And he's got this amazingly awesome just way of thinking in such a clear way to the point where because I feel like inside, he's just a really good person and because he knows his stuff and because he practices what he preaches. Whatever he recommends that I do, I'm just like, okay. Trust you implicitly. Let's do it.

Yeah. And I think at first, I had the resistance to it, but now I'm like, no. I think he's probably right. That's true. And this can be really trivial stuff.

Like, I used to have a private Instagram. I just made it private because I was like, I'm not updating it. I'm not updating it. I don't wanna feel like I have to update it, and therefore, it's private. And when he first said, oh, what's your Instagram?

I was like, oh, it's private. He's like, why is it private? He's like and I told him that. And he was like, you don't have to do anything. Just because your Instagram's public, it doesn't mean that you have to update it.

So it's just the people who, like, really inspire me are the people who can go, I see what you're saying, but what you're saying is this means that. And, actually, this doesn't mean that. So they uncouple it. Mhmm. And then you can be like, oh, yeah.

I'm free. And then you you go forward, and you feel like it's on your terms in a way that makes sense. Yeah. These rules that we make up for ourselves. Right?

They're wrong. That we don't even stop to even think, like, where that comes from. We even question it. Like, there's these things that we sort of accept. I mean, the way as as a mentor to MBA students in entrepreneurship that I mentioned to you before, I mean, that role, super satisfying and eye opening, has shown me more than anything how how much we can get in our own way.

How whether it is just our beliefs, narratives, how we self identify. I'm not and you and then once, like, anything, once you notice it, you then see it everywhere. So even in the way, you know, I've had other guests as well, for example, with the way that they phrase certain things. I'm not the sort of person. They're One of the most powerful phrases.

Or, oh, I'm not the sort of person that gets up early and goes for a run, which I'm not, but somehow I made it to a run club this morning. So I love that. One of the other things that I read sticking again with this really cool theme, I read that you said your superpower is helping others find theirs. I'd love to maybe try, like, a live exercise or a way that you help other people to find their superpower. So is there anything that we could do for fun here now?

Anything you can share? Anything you wanna do on me? Yes. Cool. Sure.

So If you're not watching and only listening, Jodie's face just lit up. So I think a lot about this concept of ace cards. Mhmm. You have ace cards. I have ace cards.

We all have ace cards. And running life and business on the struggle bus means not using our ace cards. And this is so common because we just believe that something's not worth it unless we've struggled to get it. Yeah. Like, good things something if something's too good to be true, it probably is or some, like, not true phrase that we've been told time and time again.

This idea of tempting fate. All this stuff that steers us away from just really leaning into what actually is working for us and will continue to work for us. Uh-huh. So struggle bus, not using ace cards. Easy street, finding ace cards and using them.

Mhmm. And this is another thing I want on a post it note because I wanted to I have I actually have an ace card ring. Oh, wait. Let's see properly. So I got this made from because I was like, I just wanna see it all the time.

I want to be reminded. Use your ace cards. Use your ace cards. You have the mean. Sorry.

Yeah? Wow. This jeweler in Cape Town, she's amazing. Yeah. Wow.

Her Instagram is resonate by Amy, and she will just create whatever you want and then send it to you. Nice. Is there any relevance or importance to you wearing it on your on that finger or just to keep it visible? No. Okay.

It's just the other hand to my wedding ring, and then, no. That's it. Wow. No relevance. Okay.

But the idea is that not everyone knows what their ace cards are. And so ace cards, just to kind of put them into a concrete definition Mhmm. Is those characteristics, those skills, those kind of networks, those things around you that you have that you could just use at any point. And one way of finding your ace cards, one kind of counterintuitive way of finding your ace cards is looking at the insults that people have given you in the past. Because when someone gives you an insult, it's not really about you.

It's about them. It's about them feeling threatened for something that you are showing them that they can't see in themselves. So when I used to have a job in a pizza restaurant, there was a guy called Kieran, and Kieran was a bit of a knob head. And he used to tell me that I had really massive arms, and they were really, really horrible. And he'd be like Team GB powerlifts are right here.

Like, do you work out? I'm like, no. I don't work out. And then because I really didn't at the time. And he's like, they're really big for a girl.

And he used to kind of, like, go like this to me and be like, oh, they're really big. A douche. Yeah. And I really I really thought, like, oh, this is like, what do I do? Like, I I probably tried to cover them up.

Maybe I tried to lose weight. Maybe I didn't wear, like, tank tops because I was just like, oh, I need to hide my hideous arms. And then as soon as I realized, no. This is my ace card. Like, yeah.

I do have huge arms, but this is this is a good thing. And as soon as I started bench pressing, that's when I realized that insult was actually an ace card. And you will have some of those things. The things that people have said to you, like, oh, she's intense. She's weird.

She's, like, obsessed. Like, all these things that we probably all heard people say, it's like, yeah, I'm intense. I'm gonna use that to become an entrepreneur. Yeah. I'm weird.

I'm gonna use that to find my tribe. If you got any coming to mind. Oh, 100. This is this is what you made me laugh at before I share mine. This interview is dedicated to Kieran Humphreys.

Kieran, wherever you are. This is team GB powerlifter. Right? It's Kieran, we forgive you. Move on.

It's interesting you already so you already kinda had, obviously, like, that sort of natural quality anyway that set you up for success in that field. So before you were even powerlifting, you already had Yeah. Like, a strong upper body. And then I recently found out that my dad's nickname at college was arms. So it's like a genetic thing that you've inherited.

Yes. But I wouldn't have leaned into it, really, unless I'd accidentally started bench pressing. That's amazing. But I feel like I could have done this sooner Yeah. If I'd have thought, hang on.

Insult equals ace card Cool. And then found it. I'm sure you've prompted all our listeners to think as well about the times that they've been insulted and how that's actually been a projection of the other person. And I love also I love love love obviously so much how you've turned that into such a literal and metaphorical strength of yours because I think especially as women, anything to do with our physical appearance, especially if it's coming from a knob, like, it would be so easy to live with that, to internalize it, and to, like you know, to this day, I still cover up parts of my body. I'm still, like, self conscious about certain things.

So I love that you've overcome it. You ask if that's ever happened to me. And this is hilarious. One of the insults I had, which is just the immediate thing that came to mind when you said that, was that I asked too many questions. Oh my goodness.

Yes. How funny is that? And I'm now here You are owning it. Top 20 business host. Yep.

Yep. Yep. This is huge. Like, accomplished host, public speaker, presenter, interviewer. So that is hilarious.

You can see the LinkedIn post already. Yes. Oh my god. Hilarious. Listeners, if this has prompted anything for you, leave us a comment.

We'd love to hear from you. What is an insult that you is actually your ace card? Definitely let us know. I have at least one more question on this amazing theme around sort of success mindset and and and being our best selves. I recently came across an amazing quote that I just wanna get your reaction to, but also I really wanna just share this quote with my listeners as well, which is let's see if I can get this right.

Pept from our goals not by obstacles, but by a clearer path to a lesser goal. And I know this sort of links back a little bit to what we were saying around distractions and focus and and also the visualizing as well. Right? So just to repeat that, we're kept from our goals not by obstacles, but by a clearer path to a lesser goal. I've heard it before.

I'm trying to remember. How cool is that? A 100. That's it. I think that we are surrounded by so much media.

We're surrounded by so many influences. We're surrounded by so many people with their top of funnel content trying to get us down their funnels. Mhmm. And I know this because I create funnel. Yeah.

Like, this is how it works. It's like you tell someone that they have a problem, and then you tell them how to solve it to the point where your solution is the only one that they possibly need. So it's Yeah. No surprise that if we're scrolling social media, we're just consuming other people's top of funnel content. And all the top of funnel funnel content is telling you, you've got a problem.

You need to change tack. Yeah. So so much of it is about ignoring that and coming back to what's my goal? What do I want? Putting your own needs forward, and then ignoring everything else.

Yeah. And I think that is why it's so important to do that, I think, is because if you're a marketer especially, because we all wanna get better at online writing, knowing how to sell, using like, taking inspiration, but we don't wanna fall into the funnels ourselves. We just want to study it. But I feel like you're not going to be able to take a step back and study it unless you know what you want. Mhmm.

Mhmm. It's like if you don't if you don't take control of your life, someone else would do it for you. Yep. It's like if you don't and we have that knowledge as marketeers. We know the game.

We know how it works. We know those tips and tricks and those hacks and those systems that we have a bit more of that awareness as to, like, oh, okay. This is how you're directing me, those nudges, those manipulations. So we do have more of an awareness on that. But I think it kinda it really just speaks to also, again, creating that space to really get clear on what it is that you want and, again, giving yourself permission to create that space Yep.

To then be able to start developing that clarity for that goal, to then be able to kind of siphon out all those distractions. I think a really good way to notice if you're living your business goals and business dreams or if you're not clear on them is how often you get talked to about, like, joint ventures or collaborations. Because I think that someone who is so clear what they want and they're going in that direction, they don't really get they don't really get that. Someone doesn't want to kind of someone is so clear what they're doing that they don't want to move them off track. Yeah.

Because they're like, hey. They're doing their thing. I know what they're doing. I wanna support them. I wanna do stuff that aligns, but I'm not gonna try and say to them, hey.

I've got this business idea. Join me in it. Yeah. Whereas someone who is getting constantly, like, come and join my venture. Come and set this up.

It's like you're they're clearly not clear enough in their own. Yeah. I think I did this quite a bit in the first few years of my agency because how I had it then would be so different to how I do one now. So right now, if I was gonna start an agency from scratch, I would build build brand first, put content out. Like, I've had a Forbes column for seven years.

I had an agency for a couple of those years, and I never once wrote about social media in my Forbes column. And now I write a post about LinkedIn on Forbes every single day. Yeah. It's like, I didn't see the ace cars that were right in front of me. Yeah.

And I was too focused on kind of, like, prospecting and writing proposals and doing stuff for people that took me in all these different directions around what kind of clients we had rather than going, no. I'm gonna build my brand. I'm gonna put my work out there, and I'm gonna attract in the type of clients I want. Yeah. And then I'm gonna pick and choose which ones I want to work with.

They are two such different strategies. Yeah. But because I wasn't so clear on what the end goal was Yeah. Then it meant I was just like, woo, everywhere. Or also even just clear on again those ace cards that you've got in front of you that you can use.

And I really think there's everything you said has resonated so much, but in particular, that feeling of kind of being worthy and deserving of success because you've struggled to get it. Yeah. And it's kind of that I'm drawing that connection as well there with the Forbes column overlapping with having the agency where it was almost like, it's just too easy. Right? I don't know if that's the but, like, oh, no.

That's that's right here. That's right. Why would I do that? Like I didn't I I don't know how it didn't even occur to me. No.

I get it. I do get it. I've been in situations as well where it was like, that was such an obvious, But we don't go I I think maybe there's something there in just, like, the high achievers, the ambitious type a personality where it's like, no. Because I think there is, like, we want we want a struggle. You know?

And, again, whether it is business or the physical strength, the athleticism side with you as well, where it's like, it doesn't you know, what what comes to mind is I remember once, in a in a role I had so many years ago where my bosses were just like, she's just obviously like a firecracker. We just like there there's there's two types of talent if if you're employing people. There's majority you need to crack the whip on, and there's something you need to put the brakes on. And I didn't realize that actually all the best bosses that I had kinda put the brakes on me. Okay.

And it wasn't until I set up my first business. And, again, that newfound freedom Yeah. Where I was like, let me loose. Didn't realize it was a fast track recipe for burnout, obviously. Whereas these bosses had been, you know, on I didn't realize it at the time, but they'd been helping me to actually work sustainably.

But anyway, my point is is that this is just a random memory that I'm not sure is gonna make it into the final cut here. But, one year it was, it was my birthday, and a particular boss, he was quite fond of me at the time, was really, really surprised at how I was just, like, you know, just super nonchalant about it. Like, I didn't talk about it. I didn't really want much attention, and it was just like, yep. I'm not seven years old anymore.

You know? And he was just really surprised. He was just kind of like and that was just a particular moment that stood in my memory of opened up this interesting conversation. I was like, well, I haven't done anything to deserve this. And then and he had the similar look on his face to yours just just there with me saying it now, and he was like, oh, and I could see the piece of the puzzle click together for him.

It was like, oh, like, that does make sense. I didn't even realize it until that conversation come up. Right? But I was like, I didn't do anything. If anything, you know, I think everyone's birthday should should actually be a celebration of their mom.

Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like, I haven't done anything to deserve this. You know? And, and so that kind of that just comes to mind as well here with, like, I haven't earned this.

I haven't I haven't put in the reps. I haven't put in all the training, the hard graft, all the rest of it Yeah. To enjoy the success. Yep. And, you know, victory is only as sweet as the whatever the phrase is, like, as sweet as, like, the journey was to get there.

You know? I think I I'm I'm, like, intentionally deciding to change my mind on exactly what you've talked about because I fall into exactly the same trap. I'm sure you did. Have I earned the rest? Have I earned Yeah.

The I don't know. You could do it with food as well. You could do it with anything. Have I earned it? Whereas it's like, I don't need to earn my birthday.

I don't need to earn the right to, like, I don't know, not look at the price of something in the supermarket or just take Friday off or take Monday off or record a podcast with you on a random afternoon when I, like, should be doing something else. It's like, yes. Definitely, we need to get away from the shoulds. Although I say that and then something a pattern that's come up recently is that I spent the last because I'm full nomad, so I live out of my suitcase and move every one Yeah. Two to three months now.

You said your your life belongings fits into one suitcase. Yeah. Everything. Yeah. And I just spent two months two months in Lisbon.

And the friends I was hanging out with in Lisbon, they are all in their thirties like me, and many of them are either on sabbatical and or they're on maternity, or they're kind of getting in the process of getting pregnant and being on maternity. And then a lot of my friends in England are in that kind of mid 30 stage where they're they're kind of taking a break or they're in that mid 30 stage where they're like, oh, I can't take a break. And the difference between those camps, the I can take a break and I can't take a break is how much they grafted in their twenties. Yeah. That's the one thing that ties them together.

Yeah. Then it's like, yeah. So you don't need to graft to earn the stuff, but then does make you feel bad about it. Look at the compound benefits of putting the work in again and again and again. Yeah.

You are going to reap the rewards of this at some point. Yeah. And then when you get there, you can recognize it, and you get this relief, I think. That's the big sense I get from the people who are chilling out. It's like, I don't need to do this anymore.

I've put the work in. I earned it, and now I can chill out. My mind goes to a similar place on this as well. Right? Because as much as I'm loving these positive messages around, like, you don't need to earn rest.

Like, rest is not a a treat. You don't need to be, like, killing yourself to just kinda take a break. And I've obviously I fully prescribed to that, and I think that's fantastic. But then I I can't help but also recognize the satisfaction that does come from the graph. Yeah.

And, again, business, physical, you know, in whatever space. It's like, I've just, you know, this is really rare for me as well, but I've basically gone, like, a week without working out. And I feel horrible, hence the early run club this morning. And I need to feel that, you know, there's kind of, like, of course, you would know better than anyone. Like, there's kind of, like, a good pain in your mouth.

There's, like, a good tired. There's a good there's, like, oh, I really feel like I've tested myself. I really feel like I've stretched myself Yeah. In whatever capacity. Yeah.

So that's where my mind goes as well, where I'm kind of, like, I don't wanna go too soft. I don't wanna go too easy. And especially, like, this is a podcast for entrepreneurs. Right? And we do need to Yeah.

Hustle and put in the work and everything else. I feel like it all comes down to visualizing the end, knowing what you're doing it all for. And the end doesn't have to be an end. The end could just be the lifestyle. It could be the day to day.

Like, I'm really big on the day to day. I almost don't actually care about the I don't care about the idea of never making my goals as long as every single day, I'm like, I'm looking forward to this day. I love living this day. Yeah. Amazing.

And then I think once you've got that so clear in your mind, every action that you take feels like aligned action. So then it doesn't feel like anything that you really need to take a break from. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Love that. Love that. But I, for sure, would struggle with the motivation to train if I didn't have competitions in the diary. Yeah. Or if I didn't have like, I've got a really I've got like, at the moment, I feel like I have my dream physique, but it's because I've planned in my head what do I want my dream physique to look like.

Yeah. And it's the physique of a CrossFitter. Yeah. Because they look awesome. Like, the Mhmm.

Kind of broad shoulders, like, amazing, like, bulbous abs that they get from GHD sit ups. And I'm like, that's what I wanna look like. Yeah. So, therefore, if I've got that plan, if I can imagine what I'm gonna look like in the mirror looking like that, how do I have to train to get that physique? Have you ever had to overcome any self sabotaging habits?

Like Like, again, just kind of, like, easier said than done in terms of, like, this is my training plan. This is what I need to eat. But, like, have you ever, I don't know, just kind of, like, do something that you know is not right, is not part of the plan, whether it is I mean, I also heard that you don't have Netflix, so I know that you wouldn't like The TV. Yeah. Exactly.

So you don't do that, but whether it is, I don't know, like doomscrolling, binge eating, like, alcohol, whatever. Like, we've just all got this human weaknesses So that derail us. Yeah. So, not with food because I compete in a weight category. So if I don't make weight, I can't I can't compete.

It's not like it's just, oh, yeah. Fine. Like, it it would it would just wouldn't work out. I think not with alcohol because I stopped drinking alcohol about twelve years ago. Like, with dunes going with with the stuff where it's like, it's you find yourself falling into those patterns.

The the thing I try and do so quickly is notice when I'm in it, just getting that that tiny second of awareness. Mhmm. So I try and put things in place where it's like that. No. What are you doing?

This isn't what you want Yeah. All the time. And that might be telling my husband, like, if you see me on my phone, just, like, slap it out of my hands. Or it might be stuff like like taking a bank card instead of your phone when you go out for dinner so that you don't have to pick it up and use it. It might be getting an Oyster card instead of your phone.

It might be Yeah. It's mainly our phones. Yeah. Because that's mainly the that's the dopamine. Biggest vice.

That's the thing that we pick it up, and then all of a sudden, it's like an hour's gone. Yeah. So I think it also speed I think what I'm getting at as well, there is that self discipline. Right? And it's like, we can't rely on that 100% of the time.

I mean, you maybe. I know we're not be surprised if you can. But even, like, you're kinda joking about, like, husband, like, knock out my hand. If you Yeah. Sometimes we need either that accountability or or an app or an external something to make sure that we hold ourselves accountable to those goals.

A really nice way I've heard it talked about is your higher desire. If your higher desire is to have your dream physique, to have your dream life, to have your dream business, to have everything, then the lesser desire is, like Not worth it. Scrolling something or watching something on TV that probably doesn't even matter or, like, yeah, any any of the things that could take you away from it, I think it's because your higher desire is not defined enough. And it's similar to the quote that you said. We're kept from our goals, not through through Obstacles, but through a clearer path to a lesser goal.

So there's a clearer path to scrolling Instagram. There's a clearer path to some kind of Netflix show. Exactly. And if the clear path to your higher desire is actually not that clear, then that's the problem to solve. Yeah.

That's the if I've got this big goal to sell my business, maybe it's maybe it's fuzzy. Maybe that I know I know where I am now. I know that I wanna sell my business, but because I haven't got I haven't met the people who've done it before Yeah. Or I haven't got the step by step that I need to do every single day, it's fuzzy. And therefore, it's so much easier to do this thing Yeah.

That is just that instant gratification. Yeah. That's exactly it. Jody, you're so right, and it's so, so important to say that in the here and now as well because, again, I'm predicting that a 100% of our listeners are gonna relate to that as well because I think we're all kind of a victim to it's just, you know, especially again, our phones, social media, like, these are next level manipulation devices. Yeah.

We're talking before about okay. You're saying, like, marketing funnels, for example, but, like, yeah. Actually, there's no way no human has the self discipline other than Jodie Cook to overcome the powers of these manipulative Yeah. Social media, unless we delete them or do box zero or have these other things. I think it takes a second.

It's a pattern interrupt. Of just Yeah. What am I doing? Yeah. Then go.

That pattern interrupt. Yeah. Super powerful. So before we wrap, I wanna make sure that you share what you're working on at the moment. So we'd love to hear an elevator pitch of Coach Vox before coming to my traditional closing question.

But before we do, is there anything that we haven't already covered that you wanna share or anything that no one else has asked you? So something that I get asked a lot, not on podcasts, is around how you work and train with your husband. Mhmm. And a lot of this comes down to people. It it's normally that question followed by I could never do it.

And, one of the things that we talk about a fair bit is how we get it so that we are always on the same team, and we're not, like, competing against each other. Because lots of my high powered career focused female friends actually struggle to find someone who can handle their kind of their power. Yeah. Someone who doesn't feel, like, dimmed by it. I was gonna ask actually before if your husband is your match in that sense.

I presume he is. Yeah. For sure. But we are very intentional about it. Mhmm.

And one of our actual mantras is literally just same team, but we take that so far. So if we were at some kind of, I don't know, you know, family things where they put you in teams and stuff, like, we literally wouldn't be on other teams. Like, we don't compete each against each other in anything at all. It. Wow.

Because it's constantly this mindset of we're on the same team. We're in this together. I'm doing this because we're achieving our goals together, not because there's any kind of, oh, you did this. I've got one over on you, or you you got to go on holiday last year, so I get to go on holiday this year. Like, there's none of that.

And, we work on it a lot. And then we also have, like, weekly debriefs together every Saturday Mhmm. Where we talk about the week and what we've kind of what we've done and how it's been good and how we can do better. And it's all about coming back to that same team thing and also making it so that there's no defensiveness about anything. So if something happened during the week that someone's a bit like, oh, that was a bit that was a bit meh.

And just clear the air. You just everything's all out all the time. Which is a great tip for cofounders as well. Right? Bringing it back to business and having, like and just nip these things in the bud, have that weekly communication.

I have to ask with your husband. Like, how structured are those Saturday debriefs? Is it, like, specific time, place? Is it scheduled in? I'm just curious.

So there's a it's like a Google, Google form. It's got, like, a scores on the doors thing first, which is where we rank things from terrible to awesome. Wow. So it's like his training, my training, Coach Fox. We've got one called money clouds, which is just the random stuff that kind of comes through.

And then also, there's actually one that's just called vibes, which isn't really anything. It's just like, how's everything? Vibes. Nice. And then there's, like, progress to make on those different categories as well.

Wow. And so Coach Fox is on this between so is he your cofounder? Yes. Okay. Sorry.

I didn't really alright. Well, nice segue into Coach Fox. Tell us about that. Yeah. So Coach Fox is a an AI platform where coaches make an AI version of themselves.

They're super cool, and they use that AI version of themselves as a lead magnet. So people in their audience sign up to get AI coaching from the them, and then they join their mailing list, and then they get followed up, and then they turn into actual clients as well. Awesome. So we have a bunch of coaches who upload all their content. They've all kind of written books or they've got podcasts.

So they're they're very they're known and they're experts in their specific field. And then the AI essentially delivers their messaging when they're asleep and when they're doing other things. Amazing. So it gives other people a taster of their methods. Yeah.

And speaks to the power of personal branding and linking back to your, future podcast with Christo as well. Right? And, actually, you build your personal profile. This is a really nice way to create almost a lower ticket, more kind of accessible version Yeah. You're offering.

Right? Because people want more of you. If you Yeah. If you show up online and if you've got these beliefs and these methodologies, people actually want them in their heads all the time because they want to they want to do, like, what would Stephanie do? Well, now you can ask her AI, and therefore, it's there delivering that information to you all the time so you don't fall off track.

So how did you start an AI business as I'm guessing a non AI engineer, a non techie? Yeah. Is your husband in tech? No. Neither of us are.

How did you get started? Went down the rabbit hole of it. So in between businesses, I was doing I was kind of figuring out what to do next, and I was coaching some agency owners on how to sell their agency. Yeah. And when I was doing it, I realized that we knew the clear goal.

They knew exactly what they had to do, but they just kept going off track. Yeah. And I was traveling loads. I was on different time zones. And, I kind of made we made the AI version of me, so we made Jodie AI partly for my existing clients to keep them on track so that they had that whole, like, reminder of what they had to do.

And then Which sorry. Just thinking back again to the importance of focus. Yeah. So, again, this is my point. What kept getting them off track?

What were the distractions? Like, in YouTube videos, anyone else saying, oh, yeah. I was gonna do that thing, but then, like, Posey told me to do something different. Right. Right.

Shiny object syndrome. Yeah. And it's but you know what you need to do. Like, you you just do know this. So I think it was it was kind of born from a frustration that I couldn't just move in with them and really help them do it.

Because I was like, if I live next to you, you would tell your agency, like, tomorrow. Yeah. But I can't live next to you, and this there has to be another way to shift that. And then they started really enjoying it because I didn't know how it would go down at first. But then they'd say to me, oh, I used Jodie AI, and she helped me do this.

It seems weird saying she when it's like a robot. Yeah. And then after that, because I'm friends with a lot of coaches, then people started saying, well, can I have one of those? And then we started building them for other people. Amazing.

So now that's the that's the business. The importance of that market validation piece as well. Right? So, again, like, referencing back to, this MBA course where I'm a mentor again. Like, the focus on the market validation is so huge because, of course, it is the most important thing when you're launching a new business, but also the most important thing that's all the most incredibly overlooked.

Yeah. So many entrepreneurs. I just haven't talked about this before as well. Like, so many entrepreneurs, they have this wonderful excitement. They get this idea, and that motivates them.

So they've got the energy, and, again, like, visualization. They can see it. Yeah. But they completely leapfrog over the market validation piece of, like, who wants this? Who who's not saying, oh, that sounds like a great idea.

Oh, yeah. I'd sign up to that. No. Who's actually parting with their cash for this? Yeah.

Yeah. So that's incredible you went through that. We didn't even actually build it until we had we had 25 customers paying us $910 a month before we even had a platform. Amazing. It was like, I'm just not gonna go down this route.

Exactly. And especially because I'd already had an exit. So it was we'd come up with 30 different ideas before we actually went forward with Coach Fox. Yeah. And it was like, we're not just gonna build something that then is gonna go nowhere and and have, like, a few people say, oh, that's a good idea, like you said, but not actually pay for it.

So it was like, here's the Stripe form. Here's what it's gonna cost. Here's how we're gonna help you make it. Do you wanna sign up? And then we got people signed up, and then we build it.

And the developers that we were working with actually described it as laying the tracks in front of the train, which it very much was. Right. But, like, that's the way to do it. Don't build the train and then build the track after it. Yeah.

It's like, lay the tracks. It's fine. Percent. And that's the fun that's the fun of it as well. So incredible.

You're ready. You made sure to get that market validation. I think, again, that's really interesting point you make as well, being post exit and not having that same itchiness. Yeah. We described that feeling as well before that isn't the the healthiest, but you didn't have that that desperation, that itchiness, that sort of clock ticking or anything.

You kinda had, you know, honestly, the privilege to have that time and space to actually explore. Yeah. Well and I think that is, you know, can I say back to entrepreneurship as well? I I think it's really interesting around, like, the pressure that we do need to take off people when they are thinking about launching a new business, whether it's first time or not. But this is where you kinda get those common questions around, like, should I quit my day job?

Should I go in, like, full, you know, full steam at the deep end? Yeah. Should I do this? Should I do that? And I think being really practical is that we all we've all got bills to pay.

Like, we don't all have you know, we weren't all born with a silver spoon in our mouth. Right? Like, I've got a fake posh accent. I definitely, like, don't come from a well off background. And so it's interesting around, like, we need to create that space.

We always need to create that sense of luxury and take off that pressure Yeah. In order to be able to serve a market need instead of trying to force something because we're under a deadline. And then work backwards as well. If someone if someone listening to this is in a job, has a kind of side hustle idea or is maybe going forward with one, it's almost like, what does it look like? That moment I have my notice in and I say I'm ready to go into this full time, what is already there in front of me?

Because I would get really familiar with that situation. Is this a real reason or an excuse? And this is what I call out my my mentees on the program about a lot as well. I'm like, I hear I'm here to hear you, but I'm I will I'm here to also be a validator Mhmm. Or call you out on your BS.

Sometimes I'm like, is this actually a real blocker? Is this an obstacle? If it is, let's work out how do we overcome that obstacle. Yeah. If it's not, even better, you need to realize that that's just a lie you've told yourself.

I can also imagine you being really good at doing that. I am. Yeah. I actually yeah. There's an ace card.

Okay. You wanna get some ace card, Doria. So I'm gonna check out that Instagram jeweler that you mentioned. Yeah. So, the story that you just said reminds me of a friend who used to work for Apple, and she her job in Apple was to go to people who had an app on the App Store and tell them how they could make their app better to get more downloads, which was their goal.

Nice. And so she would go into meetings with it was her, and it was she had a kind of person in her team who she described as a bit abrasive. And so they would go to these startups, and they would say, okay. We've looked at your app. This is a list of things that you need to do to get more downloads.

This is how it works. And sometimes the the people who own the app would get really defensive. Yeah. And they'd be like, oh, but we've tried that. Or they'd be like, oh, no.

We're like, we can't do that because of that. And they would come up with all these excuses. Mhmm. And her abrasive team member would just say, oh, well, you clearly don't need me, and would get up and walk out. Love that.

And it wouldn't take that long for them to go, no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Come on, Apple.

Teach me how to do this. And I I love I have so much time for people who do that. Well well, I don't definitely don't do it to that extreme, but what I do in those situations is prove me wrong. I'm like, cool. Okay.

Prove me wrong. Go for it. I'm very happy to be proved wrong. Yeah. It's like just saying that's stupid.

But saying that really stupid only to let someone go, oh, yeah. Okay. Maybe. That's also a top I like we're just con constantly riffing and riffing and building on each other. Listeners, if you're still with us, we are gonna be approaching the final traditional closing question.

So I appreciate your time. But riffing on you on that as well is, one of the best, what's it called? One of the best, like, negotiation skills, or or ace another ace you can have up your sleeve if you're negotiating is to be okay with walking away. For sure. So whether it's an app store optimization meeting or selling your company Mhmm.

Is being okay to walk away in everything. Relationships. I I don't need to be here. Mhmm. I can go.

Mhmm. Mhmm. And there's an abundance mindset with that as well. Like, I have other options. I don't Yeah.

And think there's also that recognition of your worth and your value. You're like, you don't need to if you don't wanna listen to me Yep. I'm fine. Yeah. I I I am here to help you.

But saw that firsthand with my agency. When I was having those chemistry meetings, I really was like, why should I sell you my agency? Interesting. That power. It's so good.

Yeah. I don't even need to be there to run it. I travel the world. Like, it's just this cash cow I have. Wonderful.

Yeah. Prize it out of my hands if you want, but, like, I'm in no rush to sell it. And it was so weird. It was like, I feel like this works with a lot of things. Yeah.

The more you rush, the slower they are. Yeah. The less you rush, the more you're like, yeah. Take your time. Yeah.

It's fine. Yeah. The more they're like, ready to buy it from you. It's like taking the other handle, and it works. The totally what it's the psychology of power dynamics.

And for any fundraising founders who are listening to this as well is this applies with definitely VCs is the best example of that as well, which is like a world full of ego and where they're the money men, because they're usually men, but it's like the money men. And they're like, you think you've got the upper hand because you've got the money. Money's everywhere. There are loads of VC firms. There's loads of private equity family offices.

There's loads. No one has my business. No one has my market share. No one has my IP, my team, my personal brand. No one has all so it's, again, that reminder to reclaim your power.

And that belief as well. Money is everywhere. Yeah. And then counterintuitively, they'll come chasing you. Yep.

Magic. Jodie, we need to be respectful people's time as much as we could chimwag all day long. Traditional closing question, what's one tragedy that's taught you an unforgettable lesson? The biggest business mistake I ever made was I ignored my gut in a hiring process. I hired the total wrong person partly as well because I was in a rush.

I was in a rush to hire. I ignored every principle I had, hired the wrong person, and it was the worst hiring decision I've ever made. I pretty much had to rebuild my company from scratch because of the aftermath, the ripple effect of that. And I would just never ever ever do that again.

And I would just say, it's never a rush. It's always all the external pressures that you think are going on you are not an excuse to ignore your principles. Yeah. They exist for a reason. Oh, so sorry to hear that.

And if there's any consolation, that answer has come up a few times on that question as well of making the wrong hire and succumbing to that pressure of feeling rushed into it. Are there any red flags you can share now in hindsight that might help someone if they are interviewing Yes. Things to look up for? When someone trash talks a previous employer, They're not a good person. Well, same in relationships as well.

Oh, all your offices. We're monsters. There's one there's one common You are the monster. You are the common denominator. And so I think, the person I've got in mind just completely slagged off the next employer, and I remember thinking, oh, no. Like, they were really mean to them. And and then it's like, oh, no, that's gonna happen to me as well. And this is just the kind of person you are, like, some kind of drama llama who wants that stuff around them. And I just I I kind of I talked myself out of not hiring them and ended up hiring them. Then just ripple effect cascade.

SM: It's so easy to ignore that gut instinct, isn't it? I think one thing is trusting it, which we all sort of trust your gut instinct, but it's acting upon it. It's actually having enough confidence. And I think in such a data driven space where we ascribe so much more value to data and spreadsheets and analytics, We don't ascribe that same value to the fluffier and measurable things like gut instinct, even though they can be equally as important and valuable.

So on that note, Jodie, what a pleasure. This was everything and more. Thank you so, so much for coming on the show.

JC: It's been an absolute pleasure.

SM: And thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this, please hit that subscribe button if you haven't already. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for joining. Really hope you've enjoyed this, and hopefully, see you time.

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