Fundraising founder? Read this first: Interview with Jeremy Middleton, ex-HomeServe founder of Middleton Enterprises

Strategy & Tragedy: CEO Stories with Steph Melodia is the best business podcast for curious entrepreneurs featured in the UK's Top 20 charts for business shows.

Hosted by Stephanie Melodia, Strategy & Tragedy features candid interviews with entrepreneurs who have scaled - and failed - their businesses - sharing their lessons in entrepreneurship along the way. From Simon Squibb of "what's your dream?" internet fame, to Emmie Faust, the founder of Female Founders Rise. From Simon Alexander Ong, life coach of the year, to Maya Raichoora, the visualisation expert.

This is one of the best podcasts to listen to if you're looking for educational and inspirational content on Spotify, Apple, Google, Amazon, YouTube or watch the clips on Instagram, LinkedIn, TikTok, or YouTube Shorts

In this episode, Stephanie Melodia interviews Jeremy Middleton CBE, the Co-Founder of HomeServe, a multinational home emergency repairs & improvements firm which he - together with his co-founder, Richard Harpin - grew to a public FTSE 100 company in 2004 - one of the largest offers for a London-listed company that year, before getting acquired by Brookfield Asset Management in 2023 for £4.1 billion.

He is now the CEO of Middleton Enterprises which invests in ambitious founders and their profitable businesses.

Watch on YouTube via the link below or keep reading for the transcript:

SM: So, what I think most people won't know about your origin story is that you actually founded 15 businesses before HomeServe.! Take us back and walk us through some of the failures, some of the lessons learned, and the origin story of HomeServe

JM: Wow. You really wanna go for the jugular early! Richard and I were, working together, as employees for, Procter and Gamble. We both worked on the Fairy liquid brand, but we knew that we wanted to work for ourselves. And we were just looking to try and figure out a way to do it, which is, tricky because we, didn't know what we wanted to do, and we didn't have any money. We started, by buying property and going into buy to let. And you're able to do that then because you could get a % mortgages then, fill them full of tenants, and, to us, we thought that was like a free house. So we bought quite a lot of them. And because we did that, we had so many calls coming in. We couldn't handle it whilst also doing the day jobs, so we hired somebody and set up a property management company. And, we grew that property management company. In due course, we left our jobs and worked in the business. And we've got quite a bit of scale. I think we've got about 600 properties under management at one stage, but we weren't really making any money.

So we were always trying to look for, the idea. And we had lots of energy, but we probably didn't really have a proven business model. So what else did we do, you asked me? Well, we went into contract cleaning. We went into, set a start up in interior design.

We did property investment. We did mortgage broking. All property theme because that's what seemed to make sense. And, one way or another, I didn't know the number was 15. It probably is, possibly even more if I try hard about to think about it. But we grew quite a lot of sales because we were marketing people, but we were lousy on financial control.

We weren't making any money, and, it all became quite quite tricky, which I think is the question you initially asked me.

SM: You're quoted as saying "it's not enough to simply trade." What do you mean by that?

JM: Well, first of all, we weren't trading our businesses. It wasn't, buying and selling.

But, we wanted to be in business, and we were, but we wanted to achieve something. So we wanted to grow, and we had to find something that we were better at than anybody else. We had to get that proven business model. So we were constantly looking, searching, reiterating. But it took us quite a few years before we found something that worked.

SM: How did you make that discernment between flogging a dead horse versus just not knowing if, like, you haven't been determined enough? Because I know and you talk about this as well. Like, one of the true ingredients to successful entrepreneurship is persistence. Resilience, keep going. But knowing the difference between, like, are we just on the other side of breakthrough versus when do we give up and go on to the next thing? Knowing the difference between, like, are we just on the other side of breakthrough versus when do we give up and go on to the next thing?

JM: Well, we didn't know. You only do something because you think it can work. So we would start and try, and you have to run it long enough to work out whether it is working or not.

I think the difference comes when, something really does work, which came later, and then it's blindingly clear. And Now that you know But you know now clear. You know that it's clear. It's clear that the other things weren't working. But you asked the right question. A lot of people are in this position. You don't know at the time. Are you gonna just one more heave and get there? And with hindsight, it'll all become clear or not.

I don't think that's easy to know. All I would say is, there is an argument that, you know, Jeremy and Richard, you tried lots and lots of things. Far too many, you should have been more focused, and I understand that. But there's also an argument that you tried a lot, you failed a lot, you learnt a lot, and eventually, even you managed to find one that worked. Not even you.

SM: You're doing yourself a disservice at a Jeremy!

JM: If you think there's an idea, you're never gonna know until you get into it. It won't be perfect. You're gonna have to evolve it and pivot it. And, the only thing to do is try, but you will know when you have cracked it.

SM: There are no shortcuts to experience (except for this podcast where people can tap into your experience that you've acquired through all of those failures and lessons learned!)

So if you were either to go back to your younger self or just think with my audience in mind, Are there any kind of signals or anything when you are in that moment and you don't know if it is just one more heave as you say and you'll get that breakthrough? Because I'm sure that now you've acquired so many data points that you've just got that gut instinct to know that this isn't working.

JM: I don't think anybody knows truth. But, I think you need to spend much more time challenging yourself about your business model, thinking about it, asking yourself, what can I be the best at, or what am I better than anybody else at? That's a really difficult question. And most of the time, you'll come up with, if you're honest, with nothing. Mhmm.

Well, that may make you a living, but it's not gonna make you a great business. But if you keep on at it, it's somewhere in there. So, I think that's the most important thing. So when we look at businesses now, there may not be the finished article.

But in every instance, you think that the ones you want are back, there's something in there that these people could be better than anybody else at. Are any of your early failures would you have gone back and cut the cord sooner, or are you completely, like, hashtag no regrets? Both. And, definitely one should have cut the cord straight away or not even done them in the first place. Like the husband's apprentice.

But that's with the benefit of hindsight. And I I actually think each part of the process, was probably, you know, necessary to learn what not to do. Mhmm. And, so, you know, maybe people who are, smarter, get there straight away, or maybe they realize things are wrong straight away. You should definitely change them when you realize they're wrong.

I don't I don't think it's that easy, because in reality when things are going wrong, well, that's fine. But what are you gonna do with where you are? Because you still gotta deal with it. You've still got some sort of business. You've got to either evolve or exit, and that's not so easy.

You need to be pretty decisive. But we did walk away from some small businesses, that were either, you know, satisfactory, they were making a little bit of money, but it wasn't the future, Or we're gonna make a nice living and a nice income, but we're not gonna create capital. We wanted, you know, long term compounding capital because that's what our life was gonna be about. And you referenced we. Obviously, I mentioned your cofounder and old friend, Richard Harpin, the biggest bromance we should all aspire to to have it.

I'm sure it helped having a cofounder in that situation for many different reasons, but we're sticking with this theme of checking yourself, of being honest with yourself, of being truthful about that situation. Did you have any other board members, advisers, mentors, anyone else to help you to remain objective in your business ventures? Not really. Perhaps we should. And that's not to say there weren't people that Richard or myself would talk to and and listen to, but, it was all consuming.

And it definitely helps to have somebody. It definitely helps to have somebody where there's a high degree of trust, so it helps if you work together. And it helps to have somebody whose objectives are the same or similar and is in a similar set of circumstances. So we would talk about everything endlessly. It can be very hard to have done that, and wouldn't have been enjoyable if you were doing it on your own.

But we didn't have a wider group of, advisors. Perhaps if we had, we might have, maybe we would have faced up to some of these things, but, you know, all the advice you get isn't always right. Of course. Definitely, people, advised him and me to get out at various stages. Don't do it.

You know? I see. Go back and get yourself a good job. Yeah. That that sort of idea.

And it was all well meaning. Yeah. And many of them are very smart, but they it's not their life. Yeah. Exactly.

And they and that would have been wrong for us. It's a skill in itself to pick and choose which advice you're going to take on board, isn't it? Segueing into home serve. So we've got kind of this early serial entrepreneurship with Richard whilst you're both holding down a day job. So all kind of property theme, you got this lettings agency, interior design.

I mean, it also sounds like a lot of fun. I'm presuming you were kind of in your twenties, early thirties at this point as well. So definitely twenties at this stage. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. Twenties. Exciting. So what were the key lessons that you took into HomeServe with you, both in terms of deeper sort of business life lessons learned as well as any practicalities going into HomeServe? Well, the journey was that, one of those start up businesses, we had was a emergency repairs business.

And, the first thing, which was losing us quite a bit of money and nobody would fund, And we but we managed to find a joint venture partner who was a water company, to to pivot that business to being focused solely on plumbing. And, the the first thing, that was extremely important because that business, which was still called Fastfix Plumbing and Heating then, was then funded by the water company. So getting funding was the first critical thing. And and and after that, you know, we didn't have to worry so much about going bust. Just survival at this point.

Well, it it was survival. That sorted it. Now, the business didn't turn into a successful business after that. We, of course, intended it to, and, Richard was driving the business then, and and we grew it from being a small, you know, loss making plumbing company into a like, quite a big loss making plant something. So that which was as well it wasn't our money.

But fortunately, our partners, the water company, stuck with us. So, first thing we took over was that drive an energy that created a bigger, operation, but it didn't fix our problems. I mean, it fixed the problem in the sense of somebody else's money, and there was proper financial control, but, fundamentally, the business model wasn't that great. And what changed was, then the pivot that came after that when we changed from selling plumbing emergent fixing plumbing problems towards selling warranties that gave you all peace of mind that we would come and fix their plumbing problems. So instead of trying to, find somebody who, wanted a plumbing job and send someone out and fix the job and try and get paid, you would be selling, people a policy, who, to make sure that they were covered in case they did need that emergency.

And given that eighty five percent of people didn't, suddenly your cash flow was turned around. Interesting. And, Richard particularly took that concept and marketed it successfully. So that, so the that's the the will and interest to try new ideas, the ability to test, ideas and prove it, and and and that was the fundamental shift from being a plumbing business into home what's originally called home service and became HomeServe. And the third element is, I would say that lasted for the following thirty years, is the, energy and drive, to market that all over the world.

Well, perfect segue into marketing as we're focused on the core value proposition. Right? We call it product market fit in tech. It's getting that core value proposition. Right?

What exactly is that service offering? Who's that market? Are we hitting it? And then does that drastically change that model as you discovered? So being open minded enough, testing it out, being humble enough as well to to embrace kinda new ideas.

Now we've nailed it. Let's get into that growth chapter. Can you give us an overview of some of the key growth levers at certain milestones sticking with those kinda earlier days with HomeServe as we go into that kind of marketing piece? Well, first of all, proving, getting a proven marketing method. So in our instance, it was direct mail.

There were lots of people selling, you know, all sorts of competing products you could call it. It. But when we attached our magic mix, which is the right brand name, which happened to be the water company, and the right price, which is not too much, and focusing it on one part of the market, which just happened to be plumbing, then suddenly we got a direct mail response rate that meant you got your money back in less than twelve months. And that is a fantastic, return. And so getting direct mail right and scaling that up.

So you knew if you went and spend x thousands of pounds, you'd get more than x thousands of pounds back. Mhmm. So that's point one. The second one I'd say is doing, affinity deals. We're working with just one little water company, only 50,000 households in the middle of the country.

But we got affinity deals in the end with every other water company. Now, you know, it only got them with great effort, one by one, and a number of the water companies, many of them, tried to disintermediate us and and come and do it themselves. But because that was all we ever did, we were better at it than them. So, the second aspect of, the marketing success was to find the right brand, the one we had in our own area, but to apply it in other parts of the country. Mhmm.

So, and, you know, we would pay them a a commission for that. And the final thing would be once you've got that model working, it's translated into international markets. And every international market needed to be adjusted and be a bit different, but we did that, initially through joint ventures with other, international water companies and ultimately by replicating the model we have in The UK over in The US. So three things. Amazing.

So going back to the first one, I feel like a cynic may say that direct mail may have worked in the early nineties, but I think there is possibly an argument for going against the usual, the grain, and doing that today to get that cut through. What would you do today? We're sat here now in 2025, so, obviously, about, you know, thirty years later. Yeah. I'm not I mean, not day to day involved in HomeServe anymore.

Yeah. But, they are fully, multi channel in in that sense. And, you know, they've digitized and they do an awful of digital marketing, and I believe it's pretty successful. Having said that, and a lot of people say say what you said, and I would challenge them because, there's an awful lot less direct mail than they used to be. So you get a much, larger share of MAT Mhmm.

And it has more impact. And and there's quite a lot of businesses where absolutely direct mail is working again. So I wouldn't rule it out. We could have got to a a digital offering a bit earlier, but that was largely the market that, rather than us. We were leading the way with direct mail at the time.

And but we we we because, it's that it's in our nature. We tried every type of marketing, including above the line of all different types. And, you know, some of them worked up to a point. But if you're really honest about it, it's mass mailing with the right brand name and the right message to the right people, and, getting the right response rate. So, of course, if you did it now, there'll be much more emphasis on digital.

But it wouldn't be that different. Interesting. Those fundamentals still apply, don't they? You mentioned some traditional media. Were there any other flops or marketing initiatives that you thought were just a waste of money even though you gave them a shot?

Well, I think we're always happy to test things, when we got to position where we could afford to. Yeah. And plenty of them failed. But it's more around the targeting and the message than necessarily than The channel. Than the channel.

But for for that reason, we're not really I mean, they do do television, but it wasn't the same. We need to know, before we spend the money. We needed the responsiveness to know our response rates to know that it was paying out. TV in in all its forms, was just not targeted enough, and it was too expensive at that time. So, it it can, you know, build your brand, but having that degree of certainty that you're definitely getting a response, you know, I think was too tricky for us.

Yeah. A bit a bit difficult to measure. Alright. So moving on to Middleton Enterprises. I know there's so much we could talk about.

We could spend three hours just talking about the whole kind of origin story, but I know that my fundraising founders are definitely gonna wanna hear more about this. So I'm just gonna check my notes on this because you're really clear with your criteria on what you look for in an investment. So you invest in profitable companies with annual revenues between 2 and £10,000,000 with plans to reach 5,000,000 to 10,000,000 profit within five years. You take minority stakes and businesses valued between $2.50 k and 1,000,000 EBITDA with a commercially proven and profitable operating model and a blueprint to scale. You're also sector agnostic given your mixed portfolio.

So what do you look for in a deal beyond this criteria that's on your website? We're really looking for trying to find predictability. So, we're not backing the hockey stick predictions that you often see. I mean, it'd be lovely to have them, but predictions are normally remain that. Mhmm.

And that's why we're also not backing very early, stage businesses. We are trying to find businesses that are gonna compound and grow over the long haul. So, predictability is is the number one. And then the other one is the relationship with the entrepreneur. We have to feel, that we're aligned, that we could add some value, and that they feel we could add some value.

I'd say those are the two other factors. But, I mean, to be honest, we're looking for easy to understand simple businesses with an edge that have proven they know what they're doing and want to go on that scale up journey from, I don't know, half a million to 5,000,000 profitability, and where we think we can help them on on that trip, on that journey. Yeah. Okay. Sounds amazing.

You're also quoted as saying, when you're an investor, you can look at the quantitative and the qualitative elements of an investment. But there's a third aspect. How good is the entrepreneur? Do they have what it takes to succeed? So I'd love to break that down with you here building off from what you look for in a deal.

What are those key ingredients that you look for in an entrepreneur? Maybe there are some of those heuristics, whether it's kind of gut feel or it's very subjective in in one sense, but you want people who are, who will listen Mhmm. And want to, consider what the options are rather than just, try and convince you that their idea is brilliant. You want them to be open to suggestions. And you want them to, for me, believe in data and evidence.

So, yeah, we can say we believe x, but do we actually have the evidence? So, we can grow profitably. Can we? Well, have you done it? Our marketing is profitable.

Is it? Can you prove it? And, if you can't, why don't we prove that first? And then, you want people who want to be in it for the long haul, because business I've been on a long journey, and, I think my advice often to entrepreneurs is to get rich slowly, because keep getting rich quick. Good luck if you can do it.

Crypto. That's your answer. Yeah. Yeah. That wouldn't be for me.

Can you share any reasons why you've turned down deals after a few sort of rounds of meetings and due diligence? Like, if they made it through those initial Yeah. Well, the surprisingly, the number one will be because, their numbers don't stack up. And by that, I mean, they either can't produce them or it doesn't do what they said it did. I imagine that you find out quite quickly.

Well, you would think. But, a lot of people say, yeah. Yeah. I'll send you the numbers, and, and then, yeah. I'll send you the numbers.

And Is that a red flag in itself? And they just don't send them quickly enough? I don't mind. Take as long as you like, to send the numbers, but don't say you're gonna send them and not send them, and don't send them ones that aren't true. And if you do send them, if they don't match what you sold us, well, we will work that one out.

So, surprisingly, that that is is often the case. I'm surprised that that happens because it's just that you're backing yourself into a corner, aren't you? Just makes me think of when I was learning to drive, and I remember my instructor saying to me, it's like, the faster you go, the harder you're making it for yourself. And that comes to mind here with why would you wanna start off down that path? Well, I think a lot of entrepreneurs believe their numbers.

Oh. But they're just not true. Well, because, I mean, it takes a long time to to raise money. So people will come along and to interest you, they say we're we're doing x or we're and what they mean is they're going to do x. By the time we get to looking at it, you're not doing x.

Well, so it doesn't quite work. And a lot of people, it's really tough for relatively young businesses getting that financial resource in place because they sort of it's easy when you're the entrepreneur and you've got somebody producing the numbers and things seem to be going okay. Yeah. You don't wanna employ a financial controller or a finance director because that's just a cost, isn't it? But actually, it's it's a necessary cost of business and a good person will pay out.

And, as we're investing in businesses, they're often on that pivot. Sometimes they aren't in a position to know they haven't really got the numbers. So that's the first thing. It's perhaps surprising. Where else does it fall over?

It's just your your degree of confidence in the plan. So, yeah. We've got a proven proposition and we've got done five units. Great. Yeah.

But your last one, oh, it didn't work. Or you haven't got five that work. You've got three that work and two that don't. So from a predictability point of view, that just doesn't stack up the same. So we're we're dealing at quite a simple level.

And I'd love to hear more kind of beyond the the the data, the spreadsheets, the numbers. You would have think about the people, don't you? The people as well. Yeah. I've seen, I've had people pitch who have probably a great idea, and they probably raised the money and they're probably gonna be very successful.

But, they never stopped talking. Mhmm. They didn't do any listening, and you couldn't have a sensible discussion with them. Or you've had it with people where in your gut you don't quite trust them, which may or may not be fair. Mhmm.

And or, there's no chemistry. It's better to say that and say you don't like them. But I mean, you you you have to it's a long and important relationship, you know, touch the marriage bit about, getting into bed with a private equity or an investor. Yeah. They're there for the long haul until you can get rid of them.

And you if they're you're gonna have to share information with them, and really you gotta want to share information, and you gotta respect and value what they're gonna say, or are you gonna regret it? And, you know, for perfectly reasonable reasons, some people would think they don't wanna work with us. And for some people, we wouldn't wanna work with them. So I wanted to But I am quite interested in trying to learn how I could do that more scientifically. Mhmm.

At the moment, we just do it by, trying to do a little by asking people. I think we should do more of taking up references really and people who know them, you know, digging into their background a bit more would make sense. Talking to people, that's the main reason, and trying to spend some time together, working on the plan which we're about to back together. Yeah. Exactly.

So so you're really aligned on what it is that's going to happen. Yeah. So I don't suppose you go as far as, like, any psychometric assessments or anything to get to know a person. No. It it's probably would be a good idea, but I've never worked out how when I'm trying to persuade an entrepreneur that he wants to go into business with it.

He should have a psychometric test, and he might think I should have one. And I definitely wouldn't agree to that. This guy Maybe we just start off by agreeing we're both barking, but it's the same sort of barking. So that's okay. Love that.

I love that. I wanted to dig in a little bit more to the long term piece that you talk about. So on your website, also mentions about, like, patient capital. You've talked here about being in it for the long run. Can you expand a little bit more on that and especially through the lens of comparing with the VC model?

Yeah. Absolutely. We are and and try to be very different from the VC model, and I'm obviously gonna make some generalizations here. But, generally, you know, funds invest in our space, and, they first of all, they've got their money from someone else, and they've made a promise to them. They're gonna make a lot of money on it, and they're gonna get it back within quite a short time scale.

So they're investing on When you say short time scale horizon. For okay. Let's say. If conventionally, you might invest in a fund for, five years to invest, five years to exit, something like that. But generally, people are looking for a five year plan.

It could be a three year plan. But they're looking to get in, grow, and get out because they've got to return it. Well, we don't we're only running our own money. We don't have to give them any money back to people. So we want to work with the founder on making the right business decisions.

So it isn't about growing at any pace. It isn't about shoving in high levels of debt, and it isn't about exiting because there's a timeline to return money to investors. We want to try and, we only want to exit if well, first of all, my ideal investment period would be forever, because if you're in a business and it's growing, and doing what you want, then the best place is to let it carry on growing and compounding, a la mister Buffett, as he would say. Mhmm. And if you sell, all you're gonna do is, you know, pay tax and then wonder what you're gonna do, and you probably won't find as good a business as the one you're in the first place.

But more typically, we would look to exit when the entrepreneur wants to exit. What would be the other liquidity options if it is an outright exit for an entrepreneur? Well, it's the second thing. We, we're pretty comfortable offering secondaries. Most funds won't do secondaries because they don't think it's the right thing to do.

They only wanna do primary capital. And by the way, they don't get the EIS tax release on on the secondaries. I'm pretty comfortable with it because I've taken secondaries many times myself, and we've invested through this level. Because if you're a business, you've been in business, you know, five, ten years, your business is quite valuable, but you might not have any money. It's perfectly reasonable, to sell some of your shares, if you keep the majority on and you I still believe you're motivated to to do it, and we're quite happy to to to buy some of those shares off you.

Indeed, we're only investing in profitable companies. So sometimes they don't need any money. But they still might want, a business partner. They might want to sell some money, to take some money off in the secondary. Now, isn't it?

I say to, anybody raising money, well, my personal recommendation would be don't do it, would be grow organically, and and and raise it yourself or, use your own money or friends and family. But if you are gonna raise, then next bit of advice would be go little and often. Yeah. So we're happy to put in small amount as you like, really. Why?

Because we're you can always buy more shares. What's the range of check size? Well, from half a million, I guess. We typically do a million, but, typically do a million to 2 in the first round. Mhmm.

What we want to do as and when things work is increase it up to say 5,000,000. Mhmm. And we want to do that. So that is the objective. But I would rather go in small and then if after a period of time they want us to buy more, we'd be happy to buy more.

And you know what? They'll get a better price, when the business is bigger. So smell some more, sell the small amount, make sure the relationship is working. We'll be happy to buy more if it's working, and that that's another way out for the entrepreneur. You make it sound so incredibly attractive, Jeremy.

Are there any other reasons why founders should consider approaching Middleton Enterprises? Oh, I barely started the list. Crag on. You got the money. I mean, there are some drawbacks because we have a, you know, have a finite amount of, I mean, because we only invest our own money Yeah.

We have a finite amount of money. And at a certain point, we will, need need to have some exits in order to, keep on doing new business. But businesses do have a natural life. Entrepreneurs do reach a stage where they want to sell, so we fully expect that to happen. But I think the main reasons are if you, if you want some growth capital and you want an entrepreneur entrepreneur friendly finance, if you wanna work with people who've run a business and have experienced some of those things, We don't promise, what, you know, the help that we can give, but we help whenever we can.

And most typically, that might be in terms of helping them raise bank finance, helping advise on how you structure it, if we just make sure they don't sell too early, to encourage people to get their maximum return, out of what they're doing. And and so you can see with what we are interested in trying to offer Mhmm. Why we're attracted to rollouts, like retail rollouts. Mhmm. So that's why we're invested in, you know, low cost gyms.

Yeah. They've done five units. Maybe they can do more. Guess what? They've done 10 or 15.

Or we're in a, a QSR business, which, quick service restaurant business. They've done four. We're on the journey to 50. We've just invested in a a laser clinic on the high street. They've done six.

Well, why can't we do another six, another six? So we like the predictability. They like the capital that we can bring. And as we're doing multiple businesses, which require to raise money, and do those sort of retail and and property based transactions, we bring some experience to it. Yeah.

Love that. I wanna bring up the subject of female founders with you as well because the gender conversation is often brought up by women to other women, therefore creating an echo chamber. So I wanna take this opportunity, sat here across from you. I noticed that there are a handful of female entrepreneurs in your portfolio, which is great to see, but what's getting in the way of funding more women? Well, there's nothing getting in the way of us funding more women.

I would be, delighted. We we don't, it hasn't been a factor. So we haven't gone out seeking, to back female entrepreneurs, but we've found some and, we're very impressed by them. That doesn't sound patronizing. So, we try and be, well, we don't try to be.

We are neutral on on that. I guess, on average, there are less. We found less than you find a man, but that's a function of societal things, I think. So I'm not saying there aren't things that are stopping, that aren't a problem for women. I can only speak for our business.

There is absolutely no holes, barred. If I made one observation of the female entrepreneurs that I've talked to, they're a bit modest. Mhmm. There's, on it's only on average, but, compared with the men who will sit there and tell you how wonderful everything's gonna be and, etcetera, you don't get women doing that so much. They sometimes underplay their skill.

But don't say that too loudly or, I'm gonna get a lot of very aggressive, ambitious women coming to see me. That might be a bit scary, but, we we and our experience is all positive. Given your neutrality with the investment, I'm aware that your investment team on your website looks like it is all male. So do you think that there needs to be any more proactivity with the putting some checks and balances in place with any unconscious bias perhaps? It's quite a good question, and I say that because, my board have challenged me on it a couple of times.

My board being a family office includes, my two daughters, and indeed my ex wife. So it it's not that it's not been raised, and, I think it's something we will bear in mind, moving forward. Yeah. Okay. Awesome.

We'd love to see that you have got some in your portfolio, and I just not to put you on the, you know, on the on the spot and give you a hard time, but it's just I wanna make sure that these topics are not restricted to women only conversations, which they typically are. Any kind of top mistakes that you see entrepreneurs make? Any traps that they commonly fall into that you wanna kind of advise them to avoid here? Just think ahead. It it's takes a long time, to deliver your investment partner.

So, I would make sure you've anything you forecast is going to happen in the next eighteen months is gonna happen because, that that that's one thing that I would say. And then, be open and listen as well as talk. What's the best way for fundraising founders to get get in touch with you? I know that typically you go out there and you find the deals, but if somebody is listening and they think, I've I've tick all these boxes No. No.

Well, we I mean, we our business model is we're trying to find you. So please contact us through the website. If you think there might be a fit, we have conversations all the time, and we're very, very, honest. So, we always try and give proper feedback. I mean, not comprehensive feedback, but we'll tell you whether we may invest or not.

And if we're not going to invest, we'll tell you as soon as we work it out Mhmm. And we'll tell you why. Mhmm. And interestingly, you you might expect people to get offended because we'll be wrong sometimes, you know, because we're saying we don't really believe that's gonna happen or is we might say it's a bit too risky for us, but it means the same thing. Then, but people are almost universally positive if you say, no.

I don't wanna fund you because, they they they quite like to hear that. Attack. What what would be very frustrating for entrepreneurs, is to be spending a lot of time talking to a lot of people, to go through a lot of committees to not raise money because they got a big fund. They gotta spend it, and they're trying to get, 10 in in front of their IC so that one gets through. Yeah.

I'm not saying that's exactly what happens, but, you know, people are very motivated to try and keep everything floating, and they're not really gonna do it. Yeah. Such a waste of time. Yeah. Okay.

Are there any kind of specific sort of other checklist points that we haven't already covered whether entrepreneurs should reach out to you or or indeed not? Anything that just we haven't No. I I I think it's, I mean, we're we're going for a very tight niche, which is small, simple to understand business, got tailwinds, gonna grow, proven that that it works on the growth journey, already hit profitability, interested in having somebody else alongside, can benefit from some, some money either to grow the business, and is interested in a long term, relationship. That that should turn most people off. Alright.

Love that. Jeremy, my final traditional closing question. The title of the show, Strategy and Tragedy, is because often the best lessons can come from the biggest mistakes. What's one particular tragedy you'd like to share with our listeners? Well, I think I've been pretty lucky.

So I I I I'm I'm not gonna, bring forward any great tragedy. What I would say is, I did experience more than once, working in, other companies in jobs that I hated, and that was a bit of a tragedy for me. So I knew what it was like to work, in a company where I wasn't suited and with people that were where I wasn't very good. Mhmm. And it's a deeply unpleasant, thing.

And all I would say, and I'd say it quite often to people is, you've gotta do something you like. And if you like it, you'll probably be pretty good at it. And if you're pretty good at it, then, you know, rewards may well follow. So if you're not happy or you think you've got that itch, you've got a scratch, that you wanna work for yourself, then start. You've gotta go for it.

You've gotta go for it. Yeah. And and and the risk is much less than people think. And I know because I've sat there, you know, you're worried about, currently, you've got a mortgage to pay or or whatever. But you know what?

If you try doing your own business, even if it doesn't work, you'll learn so much more. You will, be more employable. Yeah. I'm actually if you leave, you won't go back. You'll never go back.

If you're that sort of person, you'll almost certainly, find a way. Yeah. %. Well, I'm sure many listeners will resonate with that. If there are people who are very early stage thinking of setting up something.

They're still in the day job. And it is hard when you're in that situation. If you've got golden handcuffs or you've ever known is that monthly stability to actually take that leap can feel scary, but it's very reassuring to hear you say, Jeremy, that the risk isn't as big as you think. And I think there are less risky ways to do it. Mhmm.

A lot of people, who are coming to it a bit later I mean, if you're leaving when you just stop being student or something, then you're younger, much to risk, have you? But if you're later and so there's much more obvious things, to risk, then, there is a tendency to think, alright, I've gotta go and do my tech start up, and, I've gotta raise all this money, which by the way, I think is incredibly difficult to do, and, spend all this money to, try and learn how to do everything about a new business. Why not go later? So, there is a world out there of profitable businesses, which, people wanna sell. There are people out there who are on profitable growing businesses where they'd like a business partner.

And, so maybe you think of yourself more as a an active investor, and go later. Yeah. And of course, the sums of money involved might sound larger, but not they're not really, because then you can use leverage and other things.

SM: I love that reminder, and I actually don't think that we talk about this enough either. I feel like there is this binary be employed or become an entrepreneur. So I love that you've remind us that, actually, there are so many different routes into entrepreneurship, and there's so many different ways to scratch that itch, get that autonomy, that freedom, that creativity as well that comes in entrepreneurship to test something out and launch. I mean, even accelerators came to mind while I was listening to you as another potential route, so I love that.

Jeremy, thank you so much for coming on the show. It has absolutely flown by the time with you, but really appreciate it nonetheless. So thank you so much. And thank you so much for listening. Really hope you've enjoyed this. If you have, please hit that follow or subscribe button if you haven't already.

Strategy & Tragedy: CEO Stories with Steph Melodia is the best podcast for curious entrepreneurs and ambitious founders. Learn from those a few steps ahead of you in these candid interviews of the highs and lows of scaling and failing business.

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