From basketball to business with Giuseppe Baidoo, Gusto Snacks

Strategy & Tragedy: CEO Stories with Steph Melodia is the best business podcast for curious entrepreneurs featured in the UK's Top 20 charts for business shows.

Hosted by Stephanie Melodia, Strategy & Tragedy features candid interviews with entrepreneurs who have scaled - and failed - their businesses - sharing their lessons in entrepreneurship along the way. From Simon Squibb of "what's your dream?" internet fame to Maya Raichoora, the visualisation guru. From Matt Lerner, the GOAT of Growth, to Nina Mohanty of Bloom Money.

This is one of the best podcasts to listen to if you're looking for educational and inspirational content on Spotify, Apple, Google, Amazon, YouTube or watch the clips on Instagram, LinkedIn, TikTok, or YouTube Shorts

In this episode, Stephanie Melodia interviews Giuseppe Baidoo, the Founder & CEO of Gusto Snacks - delicious, low calorie, high fibre apple crisps made from misshapen produce that’s not deemed pretty enough for the supermarkets.

Giuseppe’s entrepreneurial journey features the classic tale of starting a bootstrapped project from his kitchen and turning it into a £1.2 million business now stocked in the likes of Selfridges and WHSmith.

In this interview, Steph and Giuseppe discuss:

🏀 What Giuseppe's career in basketball taught him about resilience

💪 Moving to the UK and overcoming obstacle after obstacle

👀 How he started his first business - and picked himself back up again after it failed...

👥 Finding his co-founder and getting early investment

🍏 Through to getting his product on supermarket shelves including Selfridges

Watch on YouTube via the link below or keep reading for the transcript:

SM: This is the classic tale of bootstrapping a new business from the kitchen table and turning it into now a 1.2M valuation brand that is now stocked in the likes of Selfridges, WH Smiths but, o f course, this journey was not straightforward. So Giuseppe, it is amazing to have you here. Welcome to the show.

Now there's so much I'm excited to get stuck into. We've got your athletic background, so we're gonna touch on the connections between being an athlete and an entrepreneur. Gusto Snacks is not your first business. So we've got lessons in serial entrepreneurship. You raised VC funding. I mentioned that you're stocked in these household names, these high street retailers, as well as offices. So we wanna learn about how you got your product into these places, if anyone else is thinking of starting a consumer business, and I'm sure lots lots more along the way.

So let's dive in. Let's kick off with more of an elevator pitch on Gusto Snacks - maybe some an investor is listening to me right now.

GB: Gusto Snacks is an award winning brand on a mission to change consumer snacking habits for the better while also reducing food waste. So our mission really is to be able to work with the farmers, save the food that they can sell.

Unfortunately, there is so much waste out there on farm level. Supermarkets are not buying the fruit that are too big, too small, the wrong color. I mean, there is so many reasons around that. But, again, it's food that is edible, so why waste it? So, we work with farmers, try and make them more sustainable economically and potentially, you know, helping them to be, more sustainable environmentally as well.

And we save these fruits, send them to our manufacturer, work on it, and then bring them back into the food system as our fruit scripts. We have about five flavors at the moment, and we are going crazy with the flavors because we want our fruit scripts to almost be an alternative healthier alternative to the traditional potato crisps, which are not so healthy because they are fried and full of oil. So, yeah, that is really our mission. Yeah. So what are some of the crazy flavors?

So we have apple crisps with coconut, apple crisps with passion fruits and mango, apple crisp with mango, chili that we just launched recently, and then chocolate. And I will say, initially, when we started introducing these flavors, we know they were quite crazy. So and they were pretty much new in The UK market. So we started doing a bit of research first, and I would say people were spitting them out initially because they were not spitting your out.

Part of the process, testing it. To be honest, we we were initially, we were a bit like, wow. What is going on? You know? But then we used actually, the situation at our advantage and kept on researching.

We spoke with over 300 people and kept improving them, and now they are sold in the highest risk stores.

SM: Such a great lesson. And it's such a good job that you went through that testing process because so many entrepreneurs, especially if it is your first time founder, if you're listening, you think you've got a great idea, and you think you know best, right? It's your vision. I get it. But to your point, you I mean, you'd rather people are spitting out these crazy flavors in a test in a small testing environment than going through all the pains of the large scale manufacturing, getting it in Selfridges.

I think that's such a hallmark of a great entrepreneur, is being open to that feedback, the learning, putting the problem first. What what do people actually want? Because without that, you just don't even have a business. So that's super interesting.

You definitely made me hungry talking about all the different flavors.

And I just wanna talk before we move on -going back to all these wonderful benefits of what you described, the farmers' sustainability, tasty, healthier snack - there's such a case here for these purpose driven challenger brands, and we see it a lot in the food space, right? The first brand that comes to mind is, of course, Tony's Chocolonely as an example that leads the charge.

Can you think of any other similar sort of brands and and the case for these businesses doing better and putting that purpose ahead of profit?

GB: One that comes to my mind, I don't know if you have heard of Dash Water, for example. Yeah. I think so. What does it look like? Yeah.

So they have this they use wonky fruits as well, but it's, zero calories, water brand, basically. Uh-huh. Carbonated water brand. Right. And they're doing such an amazing work out there.

They are I mean, they are considered as a startup as well, but they are, let's say, growth stage. So they have raised millions in funding, and they are quite doing well. And I personally, I love talking about all of this, even if it's it it means doing small publicity for them because at the end of the day, you know, the start up scene is not easy. Yeah. Yeah.

And I take so much inspiration from all of this start up. There is so many of them out there Yeah. That I'll do a lot of work in terms of going to save foods from farmers, reducing food waste. And I think probably the food warriors entrepreneurs, food waste warriors entrepreneurs, the mission probably started around I think the wave of, you know, all these entrepreneurs trying to save food started around maybe 02/2016, '15. That is where I saw the trend coming in, and I said, let me give it a shot.

Yeah. It's very validating. And, again, that's exactly the right viewpoint to have as an entrepreneur is looking at competition even if they're indirect as points of validation. I think too many, again, first time founders put way too much emphasis on the idea, not only the idea, but having something that's so unique, so different. I feel like a lot of peep a lot of newbies to the game are trying to come up with, oh, something that no one else has thought of.

And I think that's completely the wrong game. %. So that's all the more real. When you've got the competitors, it's validating. You mentioned about the VC backing of these growth startup brands as well.

Again, it's validating. It's a signal to the VCs this is a growing space. Sticking with this point, with what can you speak to in terms of the consumer reaction with your brand in particular? Because there is an argument that the eco friendly, the sustainable angle, that that's not the deciding factor for consumers. That often, it's it's a feel good factor afterwards, but things like cost, the product quality are actually the things that go first.

What's what's your what have customers really resonated with with your brand? Mhmm. Quick one. This is future Steph coming to you from Beyond. If you're enjoying this episode, then you can probably guess what I want you to do.

Please do me one tiny favor that costs you nothing and takes a second of your time. Hit that subscribe button. It really helps to support the show, and I'm really grateful for you listening. Let's get back into it. What's your tell what have customers really resonated with with your brand?

That's an amazing point. Like, you just spot out with this question. I've been around just ever. Spot out with this question. I mean, you know, when I was pitching the pitch initially, what I said initially, I said, an award winning brand on a mission to change consumer snack and a bit.

And and then I added, why is reducing food waste? So the food waste is of second nature. Okay. Because, I used to pitch initially with Boosto Snacks, you know, work with farmers to save their fruits, and then I wouldn't even mention about solving the issue of customers not snacking, you know, the right way or eating unhealthy snacks. And as I was going, I realized that, okay, it's not working.

I realized that when we are talking with customers as well, they wanna know what they are eating first. Exactly. They wanna know if the snack tastes, you know, nice Mhmm. Tastes delicious. They want to know a little bit about it is.

Exactly how much is it, a very great point. Detailing. So at the moment, it depends on the on the on the markets and also, you know, where it's stocked, really. But I will say our recommended retail price is £1.25, which is still on the high end. Wow.

Yeah. And they're small, unfortunately. Grams back. Yeah. Okay.

That's not bad. That's not bad because Wow. These days, to be honest, Crips cost around the same thing. Yeah. I mean, apart from the big companies that do sell them at a very cheap 20 p.

Exactly. Because they have scaled up so much. Exactly. But when it comes to small brands like us, it's on the £1 Yeah. 20 range.

Mhmm. And we are hoping to bring them now at some point. Mhmm. Definitely. I mean, on our website, we sell them for 90 p Wow.

Because we control the segments of the market. Yeah. Yeah. But when it comes to, for example, Sufferages, it's sold at £1.45. Yeah.

It's so funny, isn't it? By Sufferages, it's a niche market. It's a, you know, more of the people who doesn't don't mind spending. So Exactly. The snacks do sell down there.

Exactly. I'm sure I don't need to say this to you. I'm I'm sure you know. But just on this topic, I guess, more for for the listeners, is the is the bottle of water bottle of water analogy. That's the part I bang on about this all the time, like, especially from a marketing, like, marketing background.

This is a master class. The whole water, bottled water industry is a master class in marketing and branding. Indeed. Indeed. Literally, one of our world's, like, most naturally occurring abundant resources, like, basically free, especially if you're in The UK and it comes out of the tap.

Right? Like, how we've taken this abundant natural resource and how it's literally packaged up Yeah. And metaphorically packaged up. And again, the location. And you've got this great I mean, there's this really well edited, you know, Instagram reel I saw a while ago as well, which was around the water on a supermarket shelf in an airport And on the in Selfridges.

So Selling at different prices. Exactly. Exactly. The funny thing is that you go if you if you are able to discover who is behind these brands Mhmm. Some of them are manufacturing from the same site.

Exactly. Of course. Same fashion. From the same source? Yeah.

Exactly. But then the prices Yeah. Keep changing as you go on, and it's crazy. In Safedays, I've seen bottles of water that are costing close to five pounds. I'm like, what?

Honestly, I did a whole piece on this around with, what was it? I think it was, like, I think it was eight something around, like, seven to eight times difference in the price between the cheapest and the most expensive, like an 800% or something. Wow. Yeah. And it was like a Dasani oh, no.

Like a like a a Nestle Pure Water at one end, and then, like, Vos Mhmm. Which they you might be referring to it like Selfridges, like Vos at at the other end. So, for con yeah. I think this is for entrepreneurs, business people, this is just our points here are around positioning, you know, you got the four p's of marketing, like, position like, where it is. But then for consumers as well, because we are also consumers.

Yeah. It's just being I'm really sure everyone's aware of this anyway. But if you're I always say, like, if I'm in a rush and if I am in the end, it's like, okay, well, no other choice. I am thirsty or whatever, then then you're aware of it. If you've got that time to shop around and buy bulk or whatever, just just be informed.

Just be aware of this. Anyway, back to you. So we were talking about consumer choices. So if you had to order, I guess, price product, as in, so the price point, the product quality, and then the sustainability angle, maybe any other factors you wanna bring into that, how would you order the importance that your consumers are giving your brand as far as you're currently aware? Mhmm.

I will say product quality first. Okay. More than price? Yeah. Product quality first.

Because of yeah. Because of if the product is good, consumers are willing to pay for it. But then again, it also comes out it's it's also I mean, the the idea of how are you going to commercialize it and promote it in a way that the customer will buy Yeah. You know, will will buy into it. But It's the brand positioning.

Exactly. But I will say, get your products right Mhmm. That it tastes good because the consumer is not gonna say no if they like it. Mhmm. And then pricing.

Mhmm. And then I will say sustainability. Yes. Because that is another value to it. Mhmm.

If your product is sustainable, but cost customers are expecting it. And then on top of that difference. You think because it's sustainable, you can price it at a at a premium price Yeah. And it's not testing good. Trust me.

You're not gonna sell. Yeah. Absolutely. Great lesson there. And you remind me of another interview.

Let's plug a different episode if you feel like queuing up this one afterwards. I did a really good interview with Daniel Hegarty, who is the the founder of Habito, completely different industry. It's a prop tech scale up. Anyone in London A Few Years ago might remember seeing, like, the crazy ads, Uncommon, who I think is the best creative studio in the world. They did that campaign.

He's now gone on to found a fintech startup. Anyway, he was talking about the pressures from a founder perspective of being sustainable, eco friendly, like doing the right thing, all this. And he was just, again, completely not in the food industry, but you remind me he was talking about going through the b corp process, which is, like, a perfect example, and how it's so strenuous Mhmm. And quite rightly, because they've got their standards to uphold. But it takes a lot of resource, both in terms of women, manpower, the cost, the time, everything that goes into it.

That if that Just using that as as a as an example, if that takes you out of the business and you're not doing that great, you haven't built yourself up into a position to have the impact that you're working on anyway. Mhmm. So I think the lesson there, what I'm trying to say, is the the don't let it distract you. Like, get to a point it's not an and or. It's obviously very nuanced, but try and get to a point, even on an individual level, whether it's a business or a person, that you can have the impact.

Yeah. But if you let that be the cost of it, that your business is distracted or not doing as well or possibly even not even surviving Mhmm. You're not gonna have any impact as well. %. And it's good that you touched on B Corp.

I would say we we are not we are not certified as a B Corp company Yet. And I'm proudly to say, I don't even care. Very controversial. Exactly. The reason why I'm saying that is because, I'm not sure yet if customers understand really Mhmm.

What is the meaning of B Corp. Mhmm. Or if it's more for maybe a buyer that may say, okay. We love this. It is on in line with our, you know, sustainable mission, our ethical credential, or whatever.

But the customer I've not had any customer that have told me, you are not a big company. I'll not buy your product. And I'm not this is not to throw a share to the big company. Maybe one day, we will apply. Why not?

It's an accreditation that makes sense. And, again, it's more for industrial standard than anything else. A buyer may say, yes. I'll take a big company than someone who is not a tech in a who is not a big company. Mhmm.

But then the customer really don't care. Yeah. Yeah. And, also, I think what the customer really care, is, you know, if, again, your product is great, if you are doing good to the environment, it's a bonus. Yeah.

It's not the factor. Yeah. That's the thing. Exactly. Coca Cola does a lot of crazy stuff out there, and they are the number one green company in the world.

Mhmm. And people keep buying it. And, again, they talk about doing a lot of the sustainable stuff. But let's be honest. Behind it, we don't know what's really going on.

Yeah. How much greenwashing is it? But I will say, you know, as a brand or as a start up, what I've learned is that get your things right before trying to say you're gonna save the world. Yeah. Because if not, you're gonna mess up big time.

And that is even worse than you trying to do what is right. I remember customers sometimes asking us, hey. But you are a sustainable company. I love the fact that you are saving fruit, but then your packaging is not sustainable. And then I will go into, well, the reason why you can, you know, store our snacks for a very long time and the fact that they are crunchy is because of the packaging they are in.

Mhmm. If I go to a biodegradable packaging at this stage where we are It's gonna compromise It's gonna compromise quality and shelf life. Mhmm. So that means, you know exactly. Even worse.

So we are very careful in those things. Right now, our packaging is recyclable in the big stores, not our home. So we try to educate our customers. We have a QR code behind our our packaging, and then we are trying to preach about sustainability and educating the customers as we go forward. Yeah.

And then once we get to the stage whereby, we have enough funds and this the rates of sales is quicker than where we are at the moment, it makes sense to go to a biodegradable packaging. Because even if our shelf life is three months or two months, we are selling the snacks at a rate that it makes sense to, you know, to switch. So flying fast enough? It's tough because also use some of the companies are really enforcing brands to change packaging, especially in the food in food services, segments of the market. We have had some noise because of, your packaging is not sustainable, and we are trying to say, well, we are a small brand.

We will get there. Mhmm. But then they just want to make this change. But, also, somebody an internal person one time came to me and said, most of these bra these companies are fortunate, but it's difficult for them to get any brands to work with because the industry is still at a young stage to try and enforce certain things. Yeah.

So as you're saying, I think, you know, yeah, if you have the funds to do all of these accreditations to them Yeah. But if you don't, be conservative with your money. Mhmm. Prioritize what is best for your company first. Get things right.

And I would say it again, get things right, and then you can focus on, oh, you know, I want to, you know, conquer the world, and I want to reduce this, reduce that. And so yeah. So thoughtful, Giuseppe. I love that you're not just knee jerking and, you know, succumbing to the pressure of, you know, b corp. You're actually giving it some thought.

It sounds so sensible. You describe it so eloquently, and it it just again, it's it's so sensible and grounded in the realities of step by step by step. This is what we need to do. These are the priorities. There's a fantastic little quote that I think perfectly sums up startup life, which is startups don't die, they drown.

Mhmm. And you can you have a never ending to do list. Right? It's like that list gets longer and longer. You're never gonna get to the end of it.

So those priorities matter even more so. And in this context, being clear on your priorities. And as you just said there, literally just product, price, sustainability. That comes afterwards. This is where we talk a lot about, you know, the missions and the values and everything else.

It's not for that airy fairy brand comms piece. It's also in this instance, in the earlier days, it's to help guide that decision making. Yeah. And to your point, we're not gonna save the world in a day. We have to Exactly.

Map out a sensible plan when we're there Mhmm. And to when we've got the products flying off our shelves and it makes sense, then we can look at it. I mean, we we when we were even our others, when we were trying to save fruits from going to waste Yeah. We had so many, difficulties in trying to save fruit on the farm level. And you may think you are trying to do something good, and it's not working.

No. It's still not easy. And we, at some point, said, what is the easiest way for us to do this? You know? And we said, okay.

Instead of trying to save every sort of fruit and buy have different variety, let's just stick to one type of of fruit. Apples is the most wasted one of the most wasted fruits out there. Oh. Because In fact, totally. Apples are so popular.

Oh, wow. And Especially in this country as well. Exactly. And then we're trying to find the right manufacturer, and then it was tough. So we said, okay.

If we can't find the manufacturer in The UK, let's go to the EU. At that time, Brexit was not still really, going on. So we decided to go to the EU in Poland, which is the biggest producer of apples in, in the EU. And we thought, okay. Let's start from here, but let's find a manufacturer that can get the you know, our products off the off the off the ground.

And we're able to find a manufacturer that had over thirty years experience in the industry. They had farmers they are working with. Easy to communicate with the farmers through our manufacturer. Oh. Because the farmers, to be honest, they don't have time to waste either.

Job to get on with. Exactly. So just appearing to a farm and telling them, give me this is is not gonna happen. It's not yeah. That makes sense.

We found the manufacturer, and from there, they have been able to work with us. And because they also care so much about sustainability, they are doing so much about, you know, how to reduce waste and things like that, and they showed us the type of fruits they can save for us, the amounts that they can save for now. For now, all our products are, contain wonky fruit, but it's 15% for now, Not % wonky fruit. Mhmm. Because it's tough to have throughout all the season fruit that is going to waste.

So we decided to say, okay. Let's start with 15%. And then as we're growing, we'll have a team that is dedicated to go on the farm level and make sure that we get a cost consistent amount. So these are also the things that we are very transparent with when we are speaking with the shops Yeah. And with our customers as well as, hey.

We are trying our best to do sustainable stuff. I love that. But it's not you can't just claim you are completely saving the whole farm level. One. Yeah.

It's not, you know, it's not realistic. That makes sense. And I think what you put out is I think it's really important to demonstrate the awareness. We're aware of it. We know it's on the roadmap.

We'd love to get there. Help us along the way, either as a consumer or investor, to get to that point where we can do some of those things. So what was the implication of the Poland manufacturer post Brexit? So a good thing is that we did the right decision to go and produce in The EU because the brands that are sending their snacks or product from The UK to The EU is a complete mess. Like, you even go out of business just by shipping one pallet.

For each pallet you ship, you're gonna pay about hundred 900 or £1,000 same. For someone to come and check and make sure. Wow. We are in the EU. We don't pay all of that.

So we have, our manufacturer there, and we can trade everywhere we want in the EU. And on top of that, also, we can, we have a distributor in Germany. So that one also gives us the, you know, the opportunity to be able to trade around. When it comes to shipping to The UK, our products are rated zero VAT. So we don't pay on that.

It comes straight. It's just customs, documents, and that's it, really. Not to take away from that achievement, but you were lucky with that was a stroke of luck. Because it could have been the other way around. Right?

Yes. Yes. Because I've had similar conversations where it has been the other way around with entrepreneurs and with Brexit and the implications of all of that. So I'm happy for you. But I guess in terms of those lessons, could you have had the foresight, you know, pre Brexit to do that?

Was it was it purely a stroke of luck, or is there anything else you can take to that? For us for us, we wanted to start in The UK because it's it's at home. We live here. So we wanted to have our manufacturer close by. But the thing is the The UK is just not ready with manufacturing.

So it wasn't even really a choice for you then? Yeah. We to be honest, we had no idea for what we were doing. Yeah. Of course.

We were just running around and trying to find to produce our snacks. Yeah. And we spoke to farmers. We spoke to different companies, and some of them were like, you know, we actually met a company that was a competitor, but they were not able to do what they wanted to work with us, but then we're not able to get to the level we wanted the product to get to. So we tested some of their products.

We said, no. Actually, we spats we spits the. And we said, look. This doesn't work. But they were so good enough to say, hey.

There is a company in Europe that you can go to, Wow. Check them out. Mhmm. And then it took us we couldn't even find them immediately. It took us about one year or two to be able to locate them.

Wow. Yeah. In Poland. Crazy. And then we traveled, and then we're able to so I would say it was pure luck.

Okay. Alright. Pure luck. But if we do wanna try and extrapolate some lessons from that, what I'm definitely taking away is that is, I guess, kind of the power of networking, putting yourself out there, having the conversation. And I would say a good thing was us not being scared to ask the manufacturer.

Do you know anybody else? Don't get love that. Love that. A closed mouth doesn't get fed. Yeah.

So Quite literally. So we were like, you know, do you know anybody? You can do this for us. Who do you know out there that can do it? Ask ask for it.

The other thing here, which is and I reacted so strongly to you saying it even took you a year or two to get this manufactured because we think, well, in today's day and age, we've got the Internet at our fingertips. You can find anyone and everyone. But, I mean, even on the investor front, I just had a call today where they got investment from this angel who doesn't advertise at all. They don't have it on their LinkedIn profile. They don't You wouldn't you wouldn't know.

You wouldn't know unless you're following those breadcrumbs. And this particular case came about through introduction, refers the same way with you with the manufacturers. So I think there is all of this I think the other sort of lesson that we're sharing here with our listeners is there's there is still an underworld. There is. Still an underworld, whether it's investors, manufacturers, partners, the farmers, whoever that aren't, you know, humble bragging on LinkedIn every day.

Yeah. They they are not. Indeed. Indeed. They are not.

They have their business going on. They just love being quiet Yeah. Because they have their customers. Yeah. They're cracking up with it.

They really don't mind about just shouting about, hey. You know, we are here. Come and work with us. Yeah. And it's very true.

The power of networking, you know, is so powerful because if we didn't ask or if we didn't go and meet these guys You'd never know. Would have never knew that. You know? And we just found the perfect manufacturer that we could work with, you know, for a very long time. And, also, obviously, you want to always diversify your manufacturing because if these guys mess up, then how are we dealing?

We just have one. Yeah. Two minutes. Times, you know, they are huge enough to be able to control their supply chain. Good.

Amazing. Alright. Let's move on because we've got so much to crack on with. I mentioned before that you have an athletic background. I wanna hear so much more about this.

So tell us the story. What's what's all this about? Yeah. So, I mean, when I was in Italy, my dad used to play football, and I don't know what at which level, but he really loved football. And he was the one who used to take me and my little sisters to go and run during especially Saturdays because in Italy, Saturday, you don't go to school.

Mhmm. So we used to go and run around, and they used he used to challenge me a lot. Nice. Oh, you have done just two rounds. It was a massive park.

You have just done two rounds, and I I'll be like, okay. Okay. And he's like, look at me. I have this big belly, and I'm I've already done four rounds. You are so young, and now he'll be challenging me.

So the love of sports really came from him. Mhmm. And then I started doing athletics. And when I started doing athletics, I was I'm not gonna lie. I was very good at athletics.

Mhmm. You know? I had long legs. I was doing triple jumps. Built for it.

Wow. Yeah. And I was so good, and my coach just loved pushing me. And, I remember I won my first national medal in Italy, and he was really he saw me as a prospect. And then in in, in when I was going to is it yeah.

I was going to school, and I was doing athletics there, but then I started playing basketball in school. And I fall in love with it. Did you look up to any basketball players at the time? I didn't even watch anybody, to be honest. I just love the fact that, you know, I knew about Michael Jordan by the time I wasn't watching Michael.

I was more into athletic. Mhmm. The I would say 90% of the time. In school was more of, like, 5% of the time. I didn't take it serious.

But when I played basketball, I loved it. And then a team came there, and they were looking at me like, hey. You know, do you want to come and train with us? And I'm like, yeah. I would love that.

So when I went back and home and I told my parents I want to stop athletics, my mom wasn't happy about it because she's like, what are you doing? Like, you are the best out here doing athletics. You know? You can't just stop this. And my dad was like, no.

He's so young. Just let him try different things. You know? I know he's very good in athletics. So I started playing basketball and also doing athletics.

And then at some point, I stopped athletics. Mhmm. My mom was like, man. You know, I don't think she was much happy about it. But then she allowed me to do it because she's like, look.

You know, whatever you would do, we are all happy about it. Although, you have potential in athletics. And then my coach called me, like, for two weeks past trying to get me back. Hey. Don't don't leave athletics.

At some point, I wasn't replying him anymore because I said, look. I've moved on. And then when I started playing basketball, unfortunately, I started at around 13 years old. So a bit too late because normally, when you want to, be very good in the fundamentals, so, you know, basketball, you have to be able to use your both hands Mhmm. You know, and score with your both hands, left and right.

Mhmm. Bounce the ball, you know, both hands. And I wasn't able to use my left hand as much as my right hand. Even shooting my my form in terms of shooting wasn't great. Right.

So I wasn't good at all. I started at the bottom, like, with a team that wasn't that great. But I remember there was and I was also I would say very quiet as a person, very introvert, as a person. So I was a bit scared when I was playing against people that was better than me, a bit a bit intimidated, you know. And also I had a bit of anxiety, which is something I still have even when I'm doing anything else.

Sure. But I would say it was very strong, my anxiety when I stepped into the court, which didn't allow me to play very well Wow. At the full potential that I wanted to. Very crazy. And I had to convince myself and my mind before stepping on the court that I can do this.

I can do this. And it was kinda drive driving me back. So I remember there was this coach. We used to have the first team, but the first team coach didn't look at me initially. He didn't care.

He didn't call me up. And then this assistant coach came in, and he used to be very tough with me. Mhmm. Like, very, very, like, very difficult person. Very and I didn't understand initially because nobody has I've been playing for two years now.

Nobody has really spoken to me like that. Mhmm. And And that reminds you of your dad, though, like, nurturing that competitive streak or was a different approach? I think my dad was, you know, being competitive, but he was kind with it. This coach was a kinder though.

At times, he will he will yeah. He will insult me at times. And at some point, he said, okay. Enough. Like, I don't want to play anymore, and I go very upset with him doing a training session.

He didn't say anything. He just said, sit down. I'll talk to you when the the training is done. So I sat down the whole training about one hour and a half doing nothing Mhmm. Just looking at what everybody was doing.

And when the training finished, he came to me, and he said, Giuseppe, listen. Do you know why I'm doing do you know why I'm so Like, hard on you. Hard on you compared to everybody else? Because you have the highest potential compared to everybody in this team. So when I talk to you, listen to me.

Giuseppe, you're gonna try. And It's like a movie. Like and at that time, I was like, wow. Like, I even felt bad for myself for being so upset with him. And he's like, you have to listen to me.

I know where you can get to. Like, there is so much potential in you. These guys here, I don't even say anything to them when they do mistakes because you trust me. You'll be, you know and he told me Tough love. I don't know where you're gonna get in terms of heights because I don't know the future, but I know you can get really high with this.

So listen to me and stop being stubborn. How old are you now? Are you still 18? At that time, I was around 14 years old. 14?

14 at that time. Oh, so, yeah, you're a kid. I was very young. Obviously. Yeah.

Yeah. Young. And Right. Again, I was he saw that I was very quiet. I was very, you know, introvert.

So he just wanted to get that lion out of me. Like, hey. You know, you have the skills. I can see them. Be strong.

You know? Yeah. And that changed my complete mentality there. I would say I went home that I was like, wow. I'm just gonna be a superstar.

You know? No. I started watching basketball, you know, films, basketball this, basketball that. And he one thing that I love about him is that he was telling me, listen. After every training during your days off, I want you to go out there and train yourself.

Send me videos Mhmm. Of you training yourself alone. Mhmm. You know? Don't stay home doing nothing and rest.

I love that. He wanted proof of it as well. Yeah. He's like, I want to I want you to train. Go hard.

Go alone. Don't even if there is nobody, don't be shy and train. So I think that sort of mentality really sparked something in me. Like, I was like, I'm gonna, like, you know, I'm gonna get it. After training, he would just, get everybody to leave, and we would train on things that I didn't do well during the training.

Wow. We'll spend an extra thirty minutes. Mhmm. He will be there. And, still, I wasn't getting a call from the first team.

And for some reason, he became the main coach because the other coach retired. And then he said, Giuseppe, come on. I want to call you up in the first day. And I'm I'm like, probably that is the universe just getting things in place for me because it was crazy. You know?

And then but I will say the way I started training, it changed the way I was playing, like, completely. Mhmm. And during one summer, I went to play in a in a league. It was more of an exhibition league for other for other basketball teams to come and look at us. And people were so amazed.

They were like, wow. Like, what did you do to yourself? This is not the Giuseppe we know. You know? And during the summer, I have built up my muscles.

Wow. I was jumping twice as much. I was so confident. Wow. And I think I posted that That's amazing.

Exactly. I posted a picture of me holding a cup on LinkedIn, and that was the moment people realized that, okay. This guy is a big deal, and I started getting calls from different teams and things like that. Wow. And I will say the sort of mentality that this coach built me, like, that he built and, you know, injected in me is the same mentality I have now as an entrepreneur.

Perfect. Well, perfect segue because, of course, we're gonna connect your athletic past to being an entrepreneur now. Just before we do, something that I've been thinking about while I'm listening to that amazing story is I'm obsessed with the concept of talent, effort, luck as the three core ingredients to success. And Daniel Kahneman, he's the author of Thinking Fast and Slow, I think. He got, like, a Nobel Prize.

Anyway, he set out he did all this research into, like, unpacking the ingredients for success. And it's those three pillars, talent, effort, luck. And this is where the stories in sports perfectly exemplify this. And and you hit each of those three in your story. You naturally have some sort of talent Yes.

That's been recognized and nurtured by this Cruel to be Kind coach that you had. The effort clearly speaks for itself with your days off in training. And then the luck piece is both your assistant coach taking over the retiring coach. It was a lot it was out of your control. That was an element that was, like, paid into your favor.

And then the other thing is is, you know, luck is categorized as things that are outside of our control, and what was outside of your control was the genetics. Mhmm. So even going all the way back to the beginning of the story, the fact that you naturally have long legs, you're very tall Absolutely. But it's identifying the games that we can play to win Mhmm. And operating within, like, Ozil and Genius, the strengths, and everything to set us up for success to then make us even luckier.

Indeed. So it's that kind of fortuitous circle, if you like. Mhmm. Alright. So you said that the mindset that's instilled within you, you've carried through to being an entrepreneur.

Tell me a bit more about that and anything else that your athletic past has helped you become a better entrepreneur now. Yeah. So, I mean, I would say, first of all, you know, the idea of me training outside by myself Mhmm. Is something that I really, you know, I I really cherish because that was one thing that I I didn't even know I could do that. It's it's almost like people may think, oh, but this is something probably everybody does, but you training your yourself while other people are sleeping Mhmm.

Is a different mindset. Because, automatically, you may think, oh, it's my rest day. Let me just go and rest. I mean, transitioning that towards the entrepreneur side is me, you know, going off my way to research. If I don't understand something, what can I do to get to that, you know, sort of like How can I figure it out?

Exactly. How can I figure it out? And those qualities are so important when you're an entrepreneur. Mhmm. At night, at times, I don't sleep.

Mhmm. I will sit down there and get the work done. Like, I really want to get this thing out of the way. And at times, it's difficult. Mhmm.

But because you are so resilient, you are pushing yourself for it. You want to achieve something. For some reason, it just you know, everything gets aligned, then it just happened. You know? For some reason, because you're forcing it.

Exactly. You're forcing it, and it it it does work. You know? On this note, what I naturally then have to ask you about is the slippery slope with hustle culture and leading to burnout. So how do you get that balance?

Because I know you also take care of yourself, and I know that you, as obviously the founder of a healthy snack brand, you appreciate the importance of health, obviously. So how do you reconcile those two? How do you reconcile that athletic, you know, almost, like, more masculine? I'm gonna go and get it. I'm gonna figure out.

I'm gonna stay up. I don't care. You know? That versus we're still humans. We do still need rest days.

Yeah. I think I learned it in the hard way because, at some point, I kinda and, again, probably we'll have time to speak about when I came from, Italy to The UK. But at some point, once I jump into the entrepreneur, world and I stopped playing basketball, I kinda let myself go. I was just into trying to grow a company, and I wasn't sleeping enough. I was just not even eating properly.

At times, I will spend the whole day not eating because I'm in front of the computer trying to you know, I'll be eating snacks, unhealthy snacks, not just for snacks. Just to keep going. Exactly. Just to keep going. And I will say that really, like, wasn't great for my body.

I used to have abs, and I didn't say this. I even used to do modeling in Italy. Oh. And I started having my stomach. I started having some belly, fat belly.

Not that hey. Nobody's shaming. But Yeah. Again, from where I I I came from and, you know, the journey I had Right. I had a very strong physique, like, you know, and that kinda hits me hard.

What I would just say on sorry. I and it's not body share or anything, but what I would just say on that is for anyone else who didn't have a six pack, what I would just say is is, like, very often, there are there aren't as obvious signs of, like, stress. There's these internal things, and I do wonder if we had more of a physical manifestation, it would be just more of an obvious. It would it would help us. So Mhmm.

I kind of you know, I I I understand what you're saying where that's a weird thing for you, and it's a very physical obvious thing to make you be like, wait. Hang on. I never I never used to have this belly fat. Yeah. And and and so true.

And I will say, like, you have to train your mind, your body, and soul to be able to run a company as well. You know? Running a company is a sport. Yeah. You are consuming so much energy.

Mhmm. Like, even thinking you are consuming calories. Like, you know, you you just burning up. And if you don't take care of yourself, at some point, your body will let you will give you a signal, and maybe that may be even too late. Exactly.

Yeah. Probably is. So I was just looking at myself, and I realized that I was also being depressed because I was looking at myself like, man, what is going on? I don't look good. And that also affected my way of thinking because I'm like, okay.

If something is not going well with business, I kinda One thing affects yourself. Associate you with myself not looking good. I'm not looking good. My business is not going well and all of these things. Mhmm.

And then at some point, I said, okay. Enough is enough. I need to get back to training. Yeah. And I started going back to the gym and trying to get myself back to, you know Great.

So I was gonna ask about this. So how you take care of yourself now? So how many times do you go to the gym Mhmm. On average over a week now? So over a week, I try to go at least four days or five days a week.

Okay. Cool. I'm trying to work out as much as possible. You have like, is it first thing in the morning? How do you make sure that it happens?

Great question. So, obviously, I'm so busy. Mhmm. Exactly. But I love going, very early in the morning.

Yeah. I would say around 03:00 or even earlier because there is nobody around. I love just being there at the gym. Yeah. Alone at this.

Jesus effort. Working out. This is still hustle. This is, like, not even the 5AM. I'm done.

I'm trying to talk about balance and self, and you're here telling me you're gonna sleep at 3AM. Helps me sleep so much because as soon as I come out So okay. What time do you go to sleep? So and I don't do this every time. Okay.

Yeah. But, at times, I I mean, I try to go to to bed at least at ten or eleven often. So at night trying to do quick. So but because you don't need much sleep. But what I do is that, if I can go to the gym very early Mhmm.

Like around six or seven Mhmm. Then I will tend to maybe sleep a bit during the evening around eight to ten. And then around eleven, twelve o'clock, you know, to wake up, do whatever I have to do if I need to do anything extra, and then go to the gym around you know, it depends. One to two one to 03:00 is my is the time I like going to the gym. There is nobody around.

I mean, which gym do you go to? It's eighty four hours gym. Yeah. Clearly. Are you like and then when I go down there, I normally like to spend about just thirty, forty minutes Okay.

Because I don't want to stay too much. And what and you do what do you do? Do a cardio. Minutes. So cardio, always, at least I spend about ten minutes on it, and then I'll go to do weight.

Okay. I finish and come back again to do a bit of cardio. I just love cardio. You're scared. I mean, if it works for you, then maybe it's the weight.

So let me recap. So so what so you so there's a lot of waking up and sleeping. Yeah. So go on. Yeah.

But I try to regulate, but I think my body is very used to it right now. But every time I try to at least sleep have enough sleep. But if I can't if I can't have enough sleep, let's say continuously Yeah. Because I'm busy or stuff like that. Yeah.

At least I will have four, five hours sleep, wake up, do whatever I have to do, go to the gym, come back, and finish it off with maybe three extra hours or something. Works for you. For me, it works. Okay. Okay.

Interesting. Well, I mean, there is all the like, in here, we do have the the second sleeve. Mhmm. Mhmm. And, fun fact, you gave me the Apple fun facts.

I'm gonna be telling everyone about the new Apple facts that I've learned. But I actually don't I might need to double check this. But for some reason in my mind, the, the Victorian era of England, there's so many fun things around London that come from the Victorian era. And I'm not even completely sure if this is true, actually, now, but I'll say it anyway. The lamppost, that gave the the whole second sleep and waking up in the middle of the night gave way to the street lighting so that people what they used to do again, don't don't I don't mind.

I need to die. This is full of holes. But apparently, people used to go and visit each other. Oh, wow. And they there's, like, the old kind of illustration Mhmm.

Mhmm. Of Victorian English with their, like, pajamas and their dress and gown and their slippers with the little candle, and they'd go and, like, just hang out for a bit Mhmm. Between because we do have those natural circadian Yeah. So as much as, you know, it's kind of like toxic positivity almost with, like, how much we should be sleeping, getting enough rest, but if that works for you, you get a decent, let's say, five, six. You didn't say that.

You said four or five. But I don't wanna promote not sleeping enough. But as soon as you get a good chunk, you wake up, it's your downtime, You catch up well, you have another kind of bit of sleep, and that works for you. And I would say probably it's for now. At some point, probably.

I change. Yeah. Once I get because the entrepreneur journey is crazy. It is. It is.

You have to be able to find ways to Adapt. Push every adapt and push everything into you only have 24. Yeah. So for me right now is I know that I can do better in terms of my health and sleep. Mhmm.

And, I am thinking, yeah, at some point, definitely. But one thing I often do is spending time with my family. I don't play with that one. You know? I always tell my business partner, if the company is brand new and I'm off spending time with my family, call the fire services.

Don't call me. I'm not the one with the water to come off the fire, call the fire. I'm busy exactly spending time with my partner. Brigade not. Exactly.

So gonna use You know? I tend to just spend time like that, and, I I love that. I love that. I think for me, you know, it's it's part of of being nurturing your mind and your body, switching off and spending time with family and eating well as well. Love that.

Love that. Love that. It's so important to be clear on those priorities, those nonnegotiables. We've talked about only being twenty only having twenty four hours in the day, but not only is it about the time management, but I think, more importantly, it's about the energy management. And if you are if spending time with family re energizes you, then you can get so much more out of an hour than just constantly kind of slogging away.

Yep. Giseth, we've got so much more to cover. Oh my god. The time is absolutely flying. So I absolutely love this.

I'm fascinated by your by your schedule. I'd love to be a fly on the wall and see you, like, wake up, go to bed, gym at 3AM, and all the rest of it. So let's move on. The I mentioned before that Gusto Snacks is not your first rodeo. Yeah.

Tell us, in a in a bit of a nutshell, your first business. What was that? What happened? And, crucially, what were the lessons learned that you're taking over to Gusto now from your previous venture? So, I mean, everything started in, when I was studying in college.

Mhmm. I would say college university. And I had a project whereby, I was I mean, I studied product design. So but I was so good in presenting that I could sell anything to you. I could sell stones to people, you know, because of my presentation.

I just love the graphic and presenting them. It looks so real. So my final year of presentation of pro the project I was doing was about reducing food waste. And I thought about, okay. What if I save the fruits and do drinks?

So I called it ooze drinks. So the idea, the oozing of the fruits, oozing the goodness out of the fruit that is wonky, that's why I called it ooze drinks. And someone walked in during my final year presentation, and they looked at, you know, all the other person. They're like, who did this? And the teacher said, it's this guy.

And he was an entrepreneur, tech entrepreneur. And he said, I have you ever thought of starting a business? I said, no. I don't even know what is that. I'm just looking for a job, to be honest.

Yeah. And he said, look. We have an accelerator program in back in and dug in now, a tech space, but you have drinks. I'm still happy to get you to learn how to set up a business, and we see how it goes. So he took me under his wings, really taught me how to set up a business.

He had no idea how to run a drink business, but he taught me the fundamentals of, you know, how to start really. And then from there, I had other, two business partners who were in my class. And they actually joined me in this journey. For some reason, my other, colleague knew this person and used to also come to the space where all of this entrepreneur thing was going on. And we decided to join, you know, four join strengths to try and get this, you know, going off the ground.

But I would say we were very, very naive. We didn't know what we were doing. We didn't even know how to, you know, structure company properly. Didn't have a great podcast to listen We had no idea about what we were doing. We just said, let's get this going.

Yeah. And I think one thing that is very important when you're having cofounders is sit down and understand who is who, who is doing what, and who is the boss Mhmm. Who is leading because you always need the leader, you know, in a company. That wasn't there. We were all equal, to be honest, and there's nothing wrong with that.

But when it comes to, you know, leading, when it comes to having some sort of, like, structure, you have to have someone who dictates things. And that wasn't there. So because we didn't know who was who, at some point when it started getting sour, I will say this. I wasn't happy with how things were moving forward, how people were working, because I was the one who was just on fire. Maybe because the idea was mine.

Mhmm. Yeah. So I was just the one who was, you know, I used to go to uni. I would not go to go and pitch, and I'll go into trouble in university. But they wouldn't do that.

They wouldn't sacrifice their university time. And because I strongly believe that our goose like, no gusto, whose drinks will be a top brand one day, like, innocent. Yeah. I was so just I would say locked in Yeah. Into getting the business off the ground.

And so I wasn't happy about that. And I would say if I was to go back, probably, I wouldn't have made testing decision, but I kicked them out from the business. Even if I couldn't do that, I kicked them out. Then it started being a crazy situation whereby, you know, lawyers started getting involved, but nobody had money to go to court, to be honest. It was more of, like, email exchanges.

Oh, yeah. My love have said it. There was nothing. You know? We were just being upset with each other.

Yeah. And, unfortunately, I would say what is is is painful for me is the fact that I lost some friends. These guys were friends, first before being business partners. Yeah. And we all still don't really speak.

Yeah. I think I tried meeting some of I mean, one of them, I kinda met him in school, but the other person is not. She's she still hasn't spoken with me properly. Sometimes I'll send the happy birthday online on Instagram because I still kinda care. You know?

And I would love one day to probably sit down and say, hey. This is what I thought. And, but I would say, yeah, being naive and not knowing what to do probably led me to do take such an institution. But, again, I will say and I will say this. If if, we we stop being business partners, that doesn't mean that your entrepreneur journey is done.

Mhmm. Any one of them because this is what some somebody told me. They told me, any one of them could have still set up another business and push themselves like you. So it does prove that you were the one that was just on a mission to get things done. So at the end of the day, you don't have to be too hard on yourself as well because maybe if you didn't take those decision, you wouldn't be where you are For sure.

At the moment. So I will say I'm grateful for the journey. Yeah. I'm grateful for the decisions I made. But still, you know, going back probably, maybe I will do them differently.

Yeah. Yeah. Giuseppe, you're so full of wisdom. And as as painful like, I know, like, cofounder break ups, it's like relationship break ups. And especially if you've got friendship, like, it is so painful.

And so many biz like, the majority of businesses don't make it back after a cofounder break up. So I I can feel your pain. I totally empathize. But you definitely have the right attitude now with it's led you to here. We grow through what we go through, these are experiences, and more most importantly the lessons learned through that.

So as you say, like, we can't we can't go back in time and change things, but what we can do is carry those lessons with us In a minute. To the next thing, which is what you're doing now. Before we wind up and I ask you my final question, time has flown. I feel like we could definitely do much longer. But now that you with coming back to Gusteau, what are the lessons that you've brought over from Ooz, from the first venture?

And just because I did mention earlier, if there are any kind of product based founders or entrepreneurs listening, I do also wanna listening, I do also wanna hear about how you got onto the Selfridges supermarket shelves, if anyone's curious to hear that. So first, lessons from ooze Mhmm. And then getting into sandwiches. So I would say, for me, ooze was was a a big learning curve. Yeah.

Because the products I had were good, and I spoke to the first supermarket. Unfortunately, they told me, look. Your shelf life is too, low. It was three months shelf life. That's too low.

They wanted a longer shelf life. And, for example, I spoke with. They said, look. For us to bet on you, you have to have a longer shelf life. And at the time, I was using a process called high pressure processing whereby they put my my drinks inside cold water and pressure it so much.

It's like going diving under the sea, and the pressure you have on top of you is so is so strong that it kills the bacterias. And that was a new process at the time, so healthy. But the stores were like, yeah. But three months, nobody knows your brand. You don't have a massive back marketing budget.

So for us to take you, we want you to and I didn't want to put preservatives in there. How much did they want? How much shelf life? At least, I would say, eight months, one year. So also say what marketing budget they wanted you to have?

Well, I I would say at least 60,000 in marketing budget to get your product of the sale. You have to have it. Per year, per month? At least yeah. Let's say per year will be will be a good starting point.

Yeah. And you're like, I'm not even on 60 k myself. Exactly. I don't even have, like, 500 to be. So you're like, okay.

Yeah. Exactly. So, and I will say from there, at some point, I decided to close down the business, and that was the hardest time in my life, to be honest. Knowing when to quit is also I mean, we don't have time to get into all that, but that's that's a like, it's a hard decision. And I think it was very harder on me at the time because I kind of failed in playing basketball.

Mhmm. And then I got to this point where I've started a business, and the business was almost like, oh, I'm not playing basketball, but now I'm an entrepreneur. Then I failed again. Yeah. It was crazy for me.

I was very depressed, and I remember my sister telling me, listen, Giuseppe. Like, you know and we have a Christian background, and she's like, listen. God took you into this path. You know? And the same God that did there is the same God that can, you know, do you know, bring you up, and you never know.

You have learned so much. And my sister said these words to me, and I said, wow. You know what? Actually, you are right. I've learned so much.

Maybe I can help other companies launch their brand, and I started doing that initially. And then at some point, I said, you know what? It's time for round two. I'm tired of helping other people. How long was that gap between closing Ooze and starting Gusteau?

It was about, I would say, about a month. A month? About a month. Because I started actually thinking about if my products didn't have a long shelf life, what can I do now to get a longer another product that will have a longer shelf life? So you were depressed for, like, a week?

I would yeah. I mean, I would say I was depressed by still doing stuff. Okay. The fact that I couldn't live being an entrepreneur, it was haunting me so much that I will still sit there and still do some research anyway on okay. So if now even if but it was still hurting me so bad.

I'm not gonna lie. And the motivation my my sister gave me pushed me even more to say I have to do something. And when I convinced myself that, okay, this is gonna work, I really started pushing myself. And one thing I I also told myself is I was questioning myself about all these grants that I won for Husband because I won about 30,000 in grants. Wow.

Will these companies give me money again? Because, personally, we will bet on you twice. But for some reason, they did. You know? I still won awards and even won even more.

The same grants from the same Yeah. Some of them. Yeah. Wow. And, and I was like, wow.

I didn't I never knew this, you know, this can happen. And Because they do know that it is more they do know that it happens. Indeed. And and again, the you it's so painful for you as the person, and you take it per you take it personally. Right?

And it hurts. But every the outside, your sister, the these grant givers invest with the rest of it. It's like they know that that there are things outside of your control, that these things happen. And just the fact that you're willing to go back at it again is like Exactly. And that takes.

And and represent that shows that they invest in people. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Invest in companies.

Not in the early stages. Early stages. Yeah. It's so risky. They know it's gonna it's not gonna work.

Yeah. But the fact that they saw me again Yeah. Like, okay. This guy and this time round two, I'm more experienced. Yeah.

Exactly. I failed before. Mhmm. I know where I'm going. Mhmm.

And, also, going back to my business partners, I also made the situation actually made me think about, hey, Giuseppe. Look. This thing's happened, but maybe check yourself as well. What are the things that you were not doing well? What are the things that you need now to succeed as a as an entrepreneur?

Because it wasn't just them as well. It was you as well. You know? And then I thought about it, and I said, I'm not good in math. I'm not good in talking at the time.

You know? Now it seems like I talk a lot, but to be honest, I wasn't good in pitching. So I said, I need someone who will be very talkative, who will be so funny enough, me and my business partner, which is called Claudio, we used to go to college together. At some point, we got lost because we he started going to uni. I started going to another uni, and we used to work in the Tesco warehouse, you know, doing, picking and night shift.

So we used to work in the night and in the day going to study. And we used to meet each other in the corridor, and he's just sleeping. I'm just we are like, man, this life is crazy. We're like, yeah. So he was somebody that is also Ghanaian Italian.

Oh, what a coincidence. Exactly. So we had so much in common. Yeah. And when he came to me and said, Giuseppe, I want to learn from you.

I see that I saw online that you have this drink business. You're doing so well of yourself. My girlfriend left me, and, I'm so depressed. And I want to find something to do to just disconnect from this situation. I'm like, well, Carlo, listen.

I closed down my coffee. He's like, what? I'm like, hey. So he said, man. So I thought you were doing well.

I said, Claudio, listen. The entrepreneur word is crazy. I closed my company, and, now I'm researching another one. And he said, oh, that's good. I would love to learn.

Can you take me under your wings and teach me how you're doing this thing? And at that time, I was wondering, should I give an opportunity to again to another person? Because I've had so many bad experiences. Like, would I do this? But then, for some reason, something just told me, you know, give yourself the chance to trust people.

You know? You never know who you are talking to. And Claudio was also the perfect person because he was he was doing sales. He knew how to speak. He knew how to and he used to play football as well.

So he's somebody who had the drive. And at the time, I've just designed the packaging on on my computer, and I I didn't have a name at the time. But something told me to just ask him, how would you call this brand? Because I wanted him to feel part of it, not just me designing, and he need to feel part of this brand. So I told him, instead of just teaching you, become a cofounder, one, and two, give me a name.

Like, what do you think we can call this brand? And he's like, Gusto. And I said, why? He said, well, Gusto, it's Italian meaning taste. And since we are saving foods from going to waste, it's tasty.

So gusto. I said, let's go with it. Okay. Let's go with it. But I think that changed the game because cloud, you felt part that is part of the journey.

We are equal. Like, you know, everything is gonna work out. So he just took the brand like he was just the main person that came up with the idea. Like, he just Claudio was just Embodied it. Embodied the and I loved it.

And I allowed him to grow, allowed him to, you know, to make his mistakes, allowed him to be the person he is. And, you know, I'm I'm happy about that. Oh, Giuseppe, I'm so happy. What an amazing story. Oh my god.

I love this. I really hope I really hope lots of people are are are still with us and still listening because this is such a fantastic story. So many stories, so many lessons learned, and I've noticed as well, you know, you're summarizing your story, so I know we're not going, like, mega, mega deep. But even with me listening to you, you were recounting the ooze drinks, and you've you just very briefly mentioned, listeners, I don't know if you spotted this as well, but you saying about, you're like, oh, maybe because it wasn't their idea, they didn't have that same Yes. Obviously not word for word, but they didn't have that same sense of ownership.

And here, this is already something you're doing differently. You're giving Claudia ownership, like, you've named you've christened our baby. You've named it. Yeah. You mentioned packaging.

We're talking that really quickly. We still need to mention Selfridges. We still got a few minutes to get through. Yeah. But you mentioned packaging, and I just this is a really important thing we need to share as well.

One tiny change that had a big impact Yes. What was that with your packaging? So initially, I thought about, oh, there is so many colorful packaging out there. I would like to make my black. And with that because doing it black, the wonky fruits shapes that we had on the packaging will be colorful, so they will stand out.

So will be different on the shelf. That is what I thought. But it backfired because some customers didn't really know what they were buying. On top of that, we have written wonky apple crepes, but without image of the crepes. It was just complete black black with this all these colorful shapes.

And people were just asking, like, they don't know what is it, and people were not picking it. And so at some point, we're like, you know what? Let's just make a change. And I decided to redesign the packaging because, obviously, Claudio too was the salesperson. So he will go get feedback.

He's like, guys, this is not working. We have to make a change. I said, okay. Let's do it. And then this time, I I designed it in a way that it shows very well the snacks, on top of the product, on top on top of the packaging, a much more contrast colors, and more fun, really, and that changed the game.

Really, we had a lot of different buyers approaching us. You know, we launched in Google, bloom Bloomberg, you know, BlackRock, and 50 offices And that wasn't happening with the black packaging. Yeah. And also customers were more easier to understand. Oh, this is Apple Cribs.

Why you know, they already know what they were coming to Slack. So I think that change pivoting from the black packaging was a great great thing to do. Definitely. Two things I'm picking up from that. One is, again, another fantastic hallmark that you demonstrate as an entrepreneur, which is that flexibility, being open to adapting, learning.

And then secondly, with the initial idea, it kinda sounds like we're kinda too much in our own heads with these things, and I don't think we need to overcomplicate. Right? And I think I understand your thought process of, like, wanting to be different, go against what's already out there, but it's you're make you're making it difficult for yourself. %. Right?

And so it's like there's another lesson there to entrepreneurs, which is like, what can you make easy for yourself? You've said multiple times entrepreneurship is already so tough. Don't make it tougher than it needs to be. What can you do to make life easier? Mhmm.

We're trying to put up, like, a visual of the the before and after of the packaging because I saw that on a LinkedIn post. I was like, wow. That's amazing. Selfridges. How did you get in Selfridges?

Yeah. So with Selfridges, we actually approached, I think, 02/2020. Okay. So four years ago. Yeah.

About five months in time. Or maybe 02/2021. But, yeah, around that time, just after the pandemic. And they didn't even want to take out our products initially. When you say approach them, sir, I'm gonna get very, like Yeah.

What did did you pick up the phone? Did you So so what I would say is to get into the supermarket, you have to speak with buyers. Mhmm. You can't just send an email to, oh, Selfridges. This is Giuseppe.

The Selfridges. Hi. Hi. Hello, missus. I'm Giuseppe.

This is my beautiful product, and, nobody will come back to you. Yeah. Spoiler alert. Section of a store has a buyer. And I'm talking about the big supermarket because they have multiple sections.

So there is a buyer for toys. There is a buyer for snacks. There is a buyer for for confectionery, biscuits, and things like that. And for snacks, even snacks, there is snack to go or snacks, you know, different types of snacks. So you have to find the right buyer to speak to.

That's that's the number one. Yeah. Everybody is busy. They wouldn't even send it across to anybody. That's number one.

And two, you have to approach them, with a pitch. Imagine there's thousands of brands sending their pitch every single day, and you think you're just gonna email them and they're gonna come back to you. No. It's work. Every week, cloud, you're my business partner with this with sales, will send emails, keep it automated so it doesn't even have to think about it continuously.

And then they will just come back, hey. So this is the right time. At times, it's not the right time. Mhmm. Because they for a brand, your brand to go on the shelf, they have to take another brand out.

So at times, if a brand is doing very well, so you're always hoping someone is not doing well. That's the reality of things. And then, or maybe they want to revamp their whole section, and it's the right time they will come back. But because you've been consistent with it, they'll just say, oh, actually, this brand has been speaking with me for a while. So, and I also where to find buyers, LinkedIn.

Mhmm. You can just write, Sufferidge's buyer. Mhmm. And they will just pop up. Their description says buyer, you know, x y zed, or just look at Google.

Type in buyer of a supermarket, and funny enough, you have the LinkedIn popping up, you know, and then you try and approaching them with a pitch. You send your deck describing your product and things like that. So that's how it works Yeah. Getting your products to supermarkets. And what I would say is that for us, it took about two years because Sufferages like the brand, but we didn't have enough products.

So we had already tested with about 300 people, different flavors here and there. So we had about two or more flavors sitting down that we haven't launched them yet. And then when somebody told us, you don't have enough snacks. We said, wait a minute. This is the coconut and this is the mango, but we have also chocolate and passion fruit there.

Okay. Send it to us. We spoke with them, our manufacturer. They sent us samples quick. We send it to them.

Mhmm. And that is when they just miraculously came back saying, guys, let's go ahead. We like this one. Also, your sustainability aspects of things. So the sustainability was again, we're talking about second nature.

And they came back saying, yeah. We love it. And, also, you have sustainability. So let's go with it. Yeah.

In short, the buying process of both consumers as well as the actual buyers. Selfridges as well is such oh, I love I've I've loved Selfridges for as long as I can remember. Definitely as a little fashion girly. But now looking at it more from the entrepreneurial perspective, I've had other product based founders who've gotten self Selfridges, on the industry side of things, they are so fantastic Yeah. When it comes to supporting new brands.

Mhmm. They're much fresher. Yeah. You know, here in London, we've got Harrods, Harvey Nicks, Fortnum and Mason. And Selfridges is very much kinda like the new Mhmm.

Mhmm. The fresh modern little way of looking at it. So I've discovered some amazing brands through the the Selfridges food hall and stuff. So Mhmm. It's so validating.

It's so cool. I love that. Gisefa, there's so many other questions I just haven't had a chance to ask you. Listeners, if you're enjoying this, leave, I don't know where, like, contact us on social or leave a comment on YouTube, like, put your favorite emoji. If you want a part two, if there's enough demand, we'll make it happen.

Favourite. Final closing question. I feel like we're both gonna manifest a part two now, because I definitely have more questions to to make a part two. But we'll leave it here for now. Final closing question to Zepa.

Mhmm. What's one strategy sorry. Strategy. What's one tragedy what's one tragedy that's taught you an unforgettable lesson? Yeah.

I would say going back to my cofounders, definitely, you know, as a as a founder, you have to be able to set things right. Set the foundation right. Be honest with each other. Who is who? You know?

It's funny enough, when we started raising investments last year, the VC, the first thing they asked, the first question, who is the boss? That's the first question they ask. And then immediately, I made myself forward, but my business partners were also allowing me to show that I was the boss. But you hadn't had that discussion. We already had that discussion with them.

I mean, with Claudio and my other, business partner. They already knew who is the boss. Yeah. We already have set up who is the leader here. Although when you talk about leader, people think, oh, I'm gonna I'm someone who loves allowing people to do what they have to do for me.

A true leader. Exactly. If they are good in something, Cloud is so good in sales. My other business partner is so good in finances. I don't just go there and just tell them what to do.

They know what they're doing. And then we come down to the table and, hey. Okay. This wasn't done. This is done.

Let's do it like this. That's how it works. Yeah. So being a leader doesn't mean you'll be shouting around and just, oh, I'm bossy and stuff like that. But the VCs and the investors want to know who is the leader here, who takes accountability, who is, you know, the person that leads.

So, I will say that taught me that is something that, you know, it hits me hard, the fact that we didn't do it well, and I lost some friends. Mhmm. You know? And it could have gone a different way. Mhmm.

I could have still had friends. Business works. It does it at times, it doesn't work, and we can just walk away. But then that friendship could have still been intact. So I think that is one thing going back, I would have made a change, really.

Yeah. I love that. Mhmm. Just before we do wrap up, I do have to ask you. On the like, it makes total sense.

I love what you're saying. I'm totally with you. But then thinking about equity splits, there's a school of thought which is we're all equal, equal shares. It sounded like this was maybe the case with. No.

Absolutely not. Okay. So this is the thing. So if someone is the leader, they have to have the majority. I I mean so, of course, in some some startups, it happens that somebody may be a leader because it depends on different factors.

Yeah. He may have more knowledge. Yeah. Or he may be the person that brought the idea. Mhmm.

But in my case, I was the one who actually brought the whole concept of Gusto Snacks, and Cloudy then came in. Yeah. And I will say this because, again, you've been spot on on the questions. When I met Claudio, I could have said, hey. I want more power as, you know, someone because of my previous experiences.

But still, I said, you know what? I want to give him enough equity for him to really feel part of the company. Exactly. You have enough skin in the game. Exactly.

So I had around more than half of the company, he had around 40%. Mhmm. Mhmm. And that made us close to being equal, but I was still the one with majority shares Yeah. Which, I mean, worked out very well because he felt so much you know, he's so grateful for it.

Yeah. And he felt and he didn't know anything at that time. So imagine how he felt like, wow. So you're gonna give me almost half of the company Yeah. When I don't really know anything.

Was just looking for an internship. Paid off. Yeah. He paid off course. He he Claudio really just learned so much, and he was just running with us.

So it was it was it's good to bet on people. We need Claudio next time as well. I knew. Because that's this is the thing. This is where I'm always, you know, bringing it back down to earth, to reality.

There is this discussion around, oh, we need to be, like, equally invested as cofounders. This is our baby. You know, to use that analogy, you know, we're we're we're both the parents. We both birthed this project. And it can be a source of conflict if there is a mismatch there.

And and I've heard even, like, the 1% even if it's, like, one founder's got 51% and the other's 49, it's still if you don't get it right, for the person who's got the 49, it can play on their minds and be, well, I'm still not the the major shareholder here. But you and then there is that other argument of to your point, there needs to be a clear leader. There needs to be someone who is taking charge, setting that direction, to your point, not barking orders, but, as long it just sounds like you've you've managed to get it right. I think it's the expectations. And I would say when it comes equity is a different story.

But when it comes to salary, I've split fifty fifty, because that is something that we're both putting in effort, putting in a lot of work. Equity, I saw it to today. This is something that we're gonna gain in the future. That is paying myself for the fact that I brought in the idea. But for now we both put in a lot of work. We're gonna pay ourselves the same amount of money. That is how we agree, and and that's a good thing.

SM: Well, I really appreciate you being so open and transparent about that. Sounds like you've got it spot on, Giuseppe.

Thank you so much for coming on Strategy & Tragedy. I loved it. Honestly, you are the perfect guest. You've shared even on social how open you wanna be about the entrepreneurial journey, the highs, the lows. I knew that you'd be a perfect guest before coming on, but even now, I'm, like, even even happier. So, yeah, thank you so much.

Thank you so much for listening. Really hope that you've enjoyed this episode as well. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button. Honestly, it really helps me out.

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