Positive habits for high-performers with Kat Thorne

Strategy & Tragedy: CEO Stories with Steph Melodia is the best business podcast for curious entrepreneurs featured in the UK's Top 20 charts for business shows.

Hosted by Stephanie Melodia, Strategy & Tragedy features candid interviews with entrepreneurs who have scaled - and failed - their businesses - sharing their lessons in entrepreneurship along the way. From Simon Squibb of 'What's Your Dream?' Internet fame to Lottie Whyte of Sunday Times Top 100 Fastest-Growing company, MyoMaster. From exited founders like Nick-Telson Sillett to subject matter experts like Alex Merry in the public speaking arena and Matt Lerner, the GOAT of Growth.

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In this week's episode, Stephanie Melodia interviews Kat Thorne, the positive habits queen whose high-flying career made her crash and burn, forcing her to reassess how she was treating her own body. She now helps other high-performers achieve success in a sustainable way.

Watch on YouTube via the link below or keep reading for the transcript, where Steph and Kat cover:

• The "untouchable" trap - High performers thinking they're superhuman

• Move your body vs. exercise - The reframing that makes movement more accessible

• The morning phone trap - Why checking emails immediately isn't effective

• Success without sustainability fails - The core message about unsustainable success

• The productivity paradox - How self-care actually improves performance

• The 80/20 self-promise rule - Building self-respect through keeping commitments to yourself

SM: Kat, welcome to Strategy & Tragedy. You are the queen of positive habits, so I wanna hit the ground running:

If you have to choose just one single habit, what one positive habit would you recommend every entrepreneur listening to this does straight after listening to this episode?

KT: Move your body. And I was about to say exercise, but I think exercise has a lot of negative connotations, and it certainly did for me growing up and in my adult life. So I would reframe exercise, move your body.

I feel like exercise intrinsically has a bit of this, like, obligation and or what does that mean I have to, like, sign up to a workout class or go to a gym? But move your body.

SM: I love how you make it even just, like, sound so much more accessible, doable. Because you could just literally pause this right now and get up and just go and get some fresh air, do a little dance, like, whatever it is.

KT: And I think move your body. It has it has been life changing, transformative, and I know lots and lots of people who've, heard me speak or worked with me who've done this as well.

SM: Perfect. Alright. Well, let's stick with this a sec. And by the way, gang, you don't need to pause this. Keep listening. We can have you can have us in your in your earbuds, but move about, move your body. You can still listen to us while you that is the benefit of listening to podcasts on the go.

So, I feel like we all know, like, movement is good for us. What are some ways that we can really manageably integrate it more into our daily lifestyle that doesn't need to be this, like, workout regime?

KT: Okay. So this comes up, of course, all the time. And if I look back to what got me in a very difficult, situation in my life, when I think about exercise, I think it's difficult. It takes a long time. And if I would say to you, Steph, how long do you need to exercise for? You and if I was to ask five other people, we would all give different answers, and that's because there isn't a book that tells us how long we need to move our bodies for or how long we need to exercise for. So I say to people, what about if you just did it for ten minutes? And this ten minute thing is a game changer. The thing is though is what's interesting about ten minutes is automatically people think it's not enough. And, actually, I'm just I'm writing my book at the moment, and I've just written this whole chapter on ten minutes and how people have actually made fun of me for doing it for ten minutes. But when when you compare the alternative is no minutes, how good is ten minutes now all of a sudden?

SM: Yeah. Fantastic. And I laugh when you say that then suddenly ten minutes doesn't sound like that long because there is that, there is that positive psychology around achieving something. You did it. You proved yourself that you can do it. So then it becomes so much more encouraging to do more, right?

KT: Yeah. You think, okay. Well, I'm already out and about moving my body, and this feels good and I'm in the rhythm and maybe I'll say out another ten minutes. Also it has this ripple effect. If you do something good for yourself, and it doesn't have to be exercise, it could be anything. Do something good for yourself for just ten minutes, then you wanna eat better, then you sleep better, then you're just a nicer person to be around. And it just it has this huge ripple effect, and that really is kind of my mission now was to make ten minutes acceptable. But not just acceptable, but actually make it as people realize how powerful it really is.

SM: And I'm fascinated by the deeper psychology here as well. I'm not sure how much of this you can speak to, but around keeping the promises that we make to ourselves. What sprung to mind for me there is the deep self respect, the self respect to take care of our bodies, to get a good night sleep, to fuel our bodies in the right way. Is there any more on that side you can speak to at all?

KT: I think in terms of my own life experience, you know, waking up every single day and taking my body and my brain for granted, I think that was a massive lesson I learned the very, very hard way, and it's one of the reasons I started the morning game changer and the work I'm doing. Because when you wake up one day and you don't have any feeling in your body, it's a very terrifying moment. If you think about the majority of people and anyone listens to this, I would really encourage you to think about what were your first thoughts when you woke up this morning. I'm quite sure they're not about your body. You don't you don't make that connection, do you, between your legs? And as you get out of bed, you don't think, oh, you know, I can feel my legs. You're thinking about work. You're thinking about the parking ticket you haven't paid for. You're thinking about getting your kids ready for school. We take it for granted.

What I'm trying to do is try to help people before they reach the point where it's taken away from them or they have such an explosive moment in their life that sometimes they can't undo some of those things.

SM: So what's your origin story with this? What was the catalyst? Why did you wake up one morning and not being able to move? What's your story there?

KT: In 2016, I had the biggest wake up call, and it was the result of years of unhealthy and toxic habits.

And I used to wake up every single morning. And by the way, at this point in my life, I was, a Global Commercial Director. I was working for this incredible tech company. I was, working across a bunch of different teams across Europe. I was traveling all the time. I was planning my wedding.

Like, I had an amazing life, but I thought I was untouchable. And I think a lot of high achievers, high performers, we think that we are untouchable.

I think a lot back then, I think a lot of these ideas like exercise and meditation, all these things, they were around, but it was almost like they were for other people. I didn't need them. I was, like, superhuman. But what's quite interesting, I think, about my story is that the things that I used to do, didn't affect my ability to perform really well. Like, I was one of the highest performing people in my company. Like, I just bought my first house. On paper, I was really successful. But what I talk about now is how success is only sustainable with good habits. You could you could achieve incredible levels of success in your life, but at some point, it's going to catch up with you. And it's just a case of when, not if.

In 2016, my body said no more, and I nearly had a heart attack.

Even that wasn't enough for me to change. But that was the start. It was like, have a big explosion, lose pretty much everything in your life, start all over again, and then you'll start that that was when the journey started, but that's not when I started making the changes.

SM: So what was it that took you to make these changes?

KT: It was a happy accident; it was getting woken up at 5AM. So at this point, I'd already moved to Portsmouth. I'd, like, lost my long term relationship. I was married for just a few weeks. I'd literally started all over again.

And because I was so, embarrassed, I guess, about what had happened to me or what I'd done to myself, I quit my job. Mhmm. And I got headhunted, and I'd I'd become a CEO. And it was like a dream job on the vision board, but I I was in a really difficult position where I was given a year to turn it around, and I was trying everything I could think of. And all of a sudden, I start getting woken up, by a partner I was with at the time at 5AM.

And those first three days, I was pretty annoyed. Because at that point in my life, I used to wake up at, like, 06:45, seven, 07:15, 07:30. Like, literally, I was the person who would wake up thirty minutes before I had to be somewhere. And I had, like, a thirty minute get ready, get out the door because I really prioritize sleep. But, actually, secretly, I never slept well because of my habits.

So it wasn't an intentional thing. It was because I always woke up tired, and I would do three things every single morning. I'd snooze my alarm four to six times. I'd check my phone with, like, one eye shut, which I now think is your brain's way of telling you you're not ready for that information. And then I would, like, go looking for some kind of caffeine.

Actually, coffee wasn't my my caffeine of choice back then. It was any kind of energy drink. I was Red Bull's biggest customer. Passing in the morning. Yeah.

And, yeah. And and and so those those were the habit just some of the habits, the toxic and unhealthy habits that were quietly draining me and and my body in the background. But waking up at 5AM was something I just did if I was going on a plane somewhere. It wasn't it definitely wasn't like I'm part of the 5AM club. Mhmm.

And on the third morning of being woken up at 5AM, I remember thinking to myself, and I I can honestly say I think this was the first time I'd ever recognized, like, consciously noticed a thought. And the thought was, this light bulb moment, it was like, Kat, you've got all this extra time now. If you wake up every day at 5AM, what could you do with all this time? And the answer was work. That was it.

That was the golden answer to my problem of trying to turn this organization around. I wasn't working enough hours. And this was the default from growing up, a belief I had growing up, which was the harder you work, the more hours you do, the more successful you'll be. And that's literally how my the rule book for my life. And so that morning, I caught that thought and said, no.

If I do that, I'm gonna be in the same mess I was in a few years ago. So instead, I turned to my bedside table, and almost everyone laughs when I say this because everyone I think so many people can relate to this. I had a pile of books. I had every intention of reading, but just just to dust. And, and that morning, I grabbed the fur the the top of the pile, and it was a book called The Miracle Morning, which is a is is a brilliant read.

But that morning, it wasn't really about the book, although the book kind of gave me a lot of new thoughts. But that morning, something changed in me. And it was like going into my day, really resisting, by the way, not looking at my phone and not having those that usual morning routine. But it was like reading that book kind of calmed my nervous system. I want my heart wasn't racing, but I was getting excited about the content I was reading.

And as they say, the rest is history. That was the first habit I created, and then I've been building positive habits ever since. And for me now, this is a lifelong journey. It's not something that just ends. It's, yeah, it's a it's a lifelong commitment to being the best version of myself.

Incredible. Well, Kat, I love that mission, and I definitely wanna double click into the harder I work, the luckier I get. We need to talk about that. But before we do, I think what you've described here, like, everyone can relate to, the whole, like, the hustling, these habits, and the listeners of my show are entrepreneurs. And I think that every single entrepreneur feels that pressure on them to build the business, to find, you know, some money so they can pay all the bills at the end of the month.

It's an immense pressure that it can feel incredibly counterintuitive to do some of those things, to actually slice that real change in you. I relate to that. I've had burnout twice. So, again, it wasn't the first burnout that made me make any changes. It was the next one.

What can we do for our high performing, ambitious, entrepreneurial listeners to collapse that for them so that they can get to that state of integrating those positive habits quicker and without having to go through the pains that you and I have? So I think I think there's two things. I think, first of all, it requires a mindset shift. And the shift that I've experienced is that it's not the harder I work, the more successful I'll be, the more hours I do equals the more output. It's actually the more I invest in myself.

The more I look after myself, the better I perform. So, you know, for example, you see a lot of whether it's entrepreneurs or people working within an organization, and they don't take breaks. Like, that is counterintuitive to your productivity and your performance. And also going on your phone, like, first thing in the morning. Like, for example, I was booked to speak at this incredible event in Dubai, and they've just postponed it.

And I'm like, I'm gutted because I I was really, like, up for that, and it was gonna be really exciting. So there's two things now. One, I'm already ready before I read that email. Like, I've done my morning routine. I've done my positive habits.

I'm, like, resilient. I'm feeling, like, really energized, really strong, and I can take that email. Whereas if it if I had just looked at that first thing in the morning, it would have had a different effect on me, and then it would have, kind of negatively impacted the rest of my day. Whereas I can look at that objectively now and go, do you know what? A, it's not not happening.

It's just gonna happen at a different time. And, b, it allows me an opportunity to do something else with those few days. Whereas I think when we're all when we're in this cycle of, like, not sleeping that well, feeling run down, stressed about everything, chaotic with our sleep, we don't make as good decisions, and we don't think as clearly. And we lose that perspective as well. Right?

Like, you're head down. You're too close to it. You get you take these things personally as well. What can you speak to with the guilt that might come up for someone? So as much as you're like, yep.

I know it. Like, I've heard you say it. I've heard others say it. I've read the books. But it's just it's not actually happening.

Like, mentally, I get it. Logically, I'm kinda, like, processing that information, but, like, it's still not translating to the actions that I'm taking, the habits I'm integrating to a daily basis. And I wonder how much the guilt comes up. I wonder how it can feel comforting to, like, oh, I did work. So you can I feel like as humans, we crave that certainty?

And if we know that we can rely on ourselves, well, I can rely to put in the more hours or and it's kinda it's a it's a misplaced craving of certainty, I think. So I think there's that guilt that might come up for some people of, like, I can't I can't take that luxury of reading a book in the morning. I've got stuff to do. What can you speak to that? Yeah.

But that's that's the mindset shift. And this is this is the honestly, this is the biggest learning I've learned is that if you think like that, then you'll always be in this state of stress. Like, I'm sitting here now. I've taken a whole day out of my diary to come to London to have this amazing conversation with you. It.

Yeah. No. But I I'm I'm really thrilled, and I've had to overcome some thoughts of, well, I could be doing x, y, and zed. But, actually, is this something I wanna do? Yes.

Is this something I'll enjoy? Yes. Is this something that could benefit my you know, the impact I'm trying to create in the world? Yes. So I think you it's about recognize you can't push guilt away.

It's about recognizing it's gonna come up. But also, like, I go to bed every night. And and often I get those thoughts like, oh, I haven't done that yet. I could have done that. I could have done that.

I think I did as I did my best today, and tomorrow we go again. But actually, I think one one thing we shouldn't forget is that we are also living our lives. Like, a lot of people wish things away, don't they? They're waiting for the next thing, and an entrepreneur might might be waiting for an investor or they might be waiting for their next big gig or whatever. But actually, meanwhile, life is happening all around us and we shouldn't forget.

Like, this is a journey. This is an experience. Like, I think it's a real privilege to be an entrepreneur, to to start your own thing no matter how it goes. I feel so, like, grateful to have created this opportunity for myself, but I just wanna enjoy it. And if I wake up one morning and I feel like going for a long walk and not going straight into my emails or, like, jumping on a call, then that's what we need to be able to do Yeah.

And not feel guilty about it. I'm just laughing at that wonderful comment there, Kat, because I literally had the same conversation with a friend just the other day. And it was like, time's still passing, which means life is still living. And it really is, especially in business and especially when you have your own business as an entrepreneur. It's it is where I just need to do this.

I just need to, like, take that thing off my list, get to that point. And you're like, this is still your life in the meantime. Life is happening in the meantime, not once you've got these other things out of the way. Yeah. And I think that's the biggest mistake we can make in life and in business is to say, I'll enjoy my life when.

You know? And and it's also that if you read a lot about, like, happiness and, you know, I'll be happy when Mhmm. Then you realize, like, I thought that about a new car. I thought when I had a new car, I'd be, like, really happy. Or when I when I'd left my job and started my own business or when I was in a new relationship, all these things, then you realize, like, happiness is an inside job.

What makes you happy these days? Oh, what makes me happy? Everything that I'm doing, like, this mission is making me really happy. But I think, ultimately, what's making me happy is the way I live my life, that, that ability to have control over my thoughts and my behaviors, my habits. And I'm really proud of and going back to something you said earlier about how we, you know, we we almost tell our subconscious things.

We commit to things night before, and then we let ourselves down. And we would we do that very easy with ourselves, but not with other people. I'm really proud that most of the time, and I live by an eighty twenty rule, but most of the time, I am doing the things that I say I'm gonna do. And I do a lot of things that don't feel good in the moment, but I know are good for me In the long run. In the long run.

Yeah. Even if that's something I'm gonna benefit from later that day or later that week, I've I'm really proud of being able to do that consistently. And that, for me, is really important because I don't want to be promoting something that I'm not experiencing and living and breathing myself. Yeah. A 100%.

And that definitely comes through, Kat. I, yeah, I love all of that. And what comes to mind for me is in the earliest stages of entrepreneurship, especially if there are some, like, first time founders, as much as what we're saying makes complete sense. And by the way, I think 80 I think even if you're doing 80% is phenomenal. I don't know if that's just comparative to me, my own benchmark.

But if you're keeping the promises that you make to yourself 80% of the time, I think I think that's fantastic. But I'm just aware of there are, you know, different ages, different stages. And whether it's different seasons of our life, different stages of business, I feel like post product market fit, if we use the, you know, the startup lingo with that, once you've got that, you've got the traction, you can set up systems, all these things become scalable. But in those first few weeks, few months, that first year where, yes, it's still your life and these things are happening, but there is still that pressure to perform, I'd love you to share, like, any more kind of evidence as to how maybe delaying checking your emails an hour later is not gonna be the end of the world. I think it's it's going it's just that simple thing of will anyone die from this?

Mhmm. Like and it and it also is I think the biggest, kind of idea I can share is just okay. I'm gonna tell you a story to to explain this. So I worked a little while ago with a group of superintendents. And one of the things I get them to do in in all my talks is is imagine a day in the life of yourself.

Right? So then from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to sleep, what are some of the things you're doing that you know are negatively impacting you? And this superintendent was incredibly brave and incredibly open to stand up and share. And she said that one of the things she was doing within a nanosecond of opening her eyes, so one eye shut kind of idea Mhmm. Was reading the daily briefing.

The daily briefing are is a report of the most horrific crimes that have happened in the last twenty four hours. These superintendents work in child abuse. So we can imagine what's on that report. Now what was interesting about it is when we started to unpick it and said, right. What's What's the impact on on her on that day?

What's the impact if she does that five days in a week, every month, every year, and so on? And, you know, we don't even need to kind of spend any time thinking about that because we already know what the impact would be. We already know it wouldn't be positive. So, I think it's the same with entrepreneurs. So if you woke up and you were waiting for an email from an investor or about a product or whatever it is, and it's immediately negative or you read some, like, social stuff or some news or whatever.

I don't believe our brains are ready for that information. And I think that, that superintendent, she went away and she created some space, and I call it the yellow box. So just giving yourself just ten minutes. Just giving yourself a little bit of space to get yourself in the right headspace, because I think this is the challenge. We're all living in autopilot.

You know, most people are sleeping with their phones. I was looking at some crazy stats the other day of the amount of people not just sleeping with their phones as in phone next to their their, bed, but actually on their pillow. Wow. Like, so afraid that they're gonna miss something. That's gross.

Very, very, like, real. And and I think if we recognize that if we were to just delay it, even if it was just for ten minutes, and in that ten minutes, we just got some fresh air, we did a dance around our kitchen, you know, we just sat in silence for a minute, God forbid, or anything that got us in a mental and physical state, we would be able to handle that information in a totally different way. Yeah. So I do understand having, you know, started, a business from the seed of an idea and now three years later. I do understand the pressures, and especially when when it's yourself and and you're kind of in your own thoughts a lot of the time.

But it is a it will completely transform your performance Mhmm. Both personally and professionally if you create space for yourself, even if it's just ten minutes. I think there's such this is kind of what you said with your story as well. I think there is such a lack of respect that we do give our physical bodies. I think that we're we're living in the information age right now.

We are majority, at least like in our circles, we're knowledge workers. All of that worth, that value is put on our brains, how fast can we go, we can't keep up with technology, and we overlook our body needing still having its basic need. Yes. I totally agree. Did to me, this is like, it's funny actually because someone made fun of me a little while ago.

And but and I'm totally cool with all this stuff now because I've been doing it. I'm so confident in the results I know that I can help people achieve. But it is funny when people say, Kat, you get paid to tell people things they already know. I'm like, I know. I know.

We know all this stuff, but we don't do it. And and part of the reason we don't do it is because life is running too fast. Yeah. Exactly. And I think you're right.

We are over, we're over consuming and we're under producing. And if you think about the typical person, if they're looking at their phone as soon as they wake up, and then they're consuming information all day in different ways, talking to people, doing stuff on their phones, whatever their whatever their job is, what if they're an entrepreneur. And then we're doing that at night. Just before we go to sleep, then we finally put it down or people fall asleep to it. When is there any space to rest or to have creative ideas?

And that's why, this is so critical. And I think what's interesting now is if you look at some of the data around, like, the global mental state of the world report, people are most even though there are more initiatives that people are more stressed and more overwhelmed and more exhausted than they've ever been, and I I know it's because of our habits. Yeah. Absolutely. I don't think we recognize how much information there is being input.

And, you you know, you're saying about even having that space to think and be creative, let alone that. I mean, even just processing, just digesting just digesting this much. I heard as well, like, similarly as well, like, by the time we do go to bed, that's the only time when we have finally put down our phone, even if we do take our phones to bed with us. That's, for a lot of people, the first time that they are left alone in peace and quiet, alone with those thoughts. If you don't your early point on the breaks, if you don't create those breaks and those spaces for it throughout the day, throughout the week, then it all kinda comes crashing down at night.

And that feeds into you having a bad night sleep and Yeah. That vicious circle. What can you speak to in terms of managing others? Because I feel like I would definitely want to talk about other habits and things, but I feel like definitely for me, where I'm like, okay. I'll do those things.

But whether I have got an investor breathing down my neck or a bit of an Aggie client or whatever the situation is, no man is an island as the saying goes. Right? So you laughed at that question. I'm curious to hear what's your answer on that. Look.

You can only control what you can control. You can't control what other people are gonna say and do. And, again, I think the more positive habits you have, the better you can manage those things. And I think I look back to my career where I was so called successful, and I think I could have been, like, 10 times better than I was if I had had control over myself. Interesting.

And and I think that about my relationships as well, as well as my physical and mental health. Mhmm. So I think it's it's about and I also think there's something interesting about role modeling. So if whether it's an investor or a colleague or, you know, contractor you're working with, it's it's uncomfortable sometimes to share that we're doing something for ourselves because it could be seen that you're not working hard enough Yeah. Because, you know, you're taking some time out to do leisure activities when it's actually well, if you don't have a healthy body and brain, how can you possibly scale your startup?

Yeah. How can you possibly run a a huge company or or do or fulfill any dreams or goals that you have? How can you even do it? Yeah. So for me, it's just such a, like, a paradigm of conflicting messages because your investor, wants you to achieve these really amazing, ambitious goals.

But yet you as an individual, you need to be, you know, in a good place to do that. Mhmm. And I recently spoke at an event in Saudi, which was incredible, and I was speaking at, a conference about the impact on a of AI on well-being and resilience. And I could sum it my whole talk up in just a few seconds, which is basically, we can't take advantage of any of this amazing stuff if we are not okay. It's that simple.

Yeah. Yeah. You cannot scale a startup if you don't if you are not putting good if you're not feeding your brain good brain food and if you are not fueling your body. Yeah. Resilience is such a nonnegotiable, isn't it?

And in order to keep going for as long as you need to, whatever your endeavor is, you need to make sure that you've got that those sustainable practices in place to maintain that kind of resilience. You're making me laugh about with the role modeling. I had, I think, probably one of the best, if not the best role model for that. Happens to be a walking advert for his business anyway. I also had Hector Hughes on the show.

I know Hector. So lovely. Yeah. I've worked with his team. He's a great great guy.

Book. Gang, you need to check out that episode. I'm gonna link it in the show notes. But even just, obviously, for me, I'm physically sat here in person across the table from him, but I hope his kind of vibe came across to the listeners as well. But he just exudes that zen, that calm, and he really talks about how important is for him to show up as a leader in that way as well for his team.

So, so there are some real role models out there that we can actually kind of point to and look to in this day and age, thankfully now. I've mentioned before about double clicking back into working, working smarter, not harder. You mentioned it again. So let's talk about that. Can you expand on why working harder isn't the best strategy?

I know we're talking about why it makes sense to be your best self, but I'd I'm just curious to get your angle, I guess, from how, especially in entrepreneurship, you just don't always get out what you put in and how much kinda luck and all these other kinda things come into the equation. I think so let's let's talk about thoughts for a second.

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