The SALES Expert: Turn cold calls into cash with Tash Rebuck

Strategy & Tragedy: CEO Stories with Steph Melodia is the best business podcast for curious entrepreneurs featured in the UK's Top 20 charts for business shows.

Hosted by Stephanie Melodia, Strategy & Tragedy features candid interviews with entrepreneurs who have scaled - and failed - their businesses - sharing their lessons in entrepreneurship along the way. From Simon Squibb of 'What's Your Dream?' Internet fame to Lottie Whyte of Sunday Times Top 100 Fastest-Growing company, MyoMaster. From exited founders like Nick-Telson Sillett to subject matter experts like Alex Merry in the public speaking arena and Matt Lerner, the GOAT of Growth.

This is one of the best podcasts to listen to if you're looking for educational and inspirational content on Spotify, Apple, Google, Amazon, YouTube or watch the clips on Instagram, LinkedIn, TikTok, or YouTube Shorts

-

In this week's episode, Stephanie Melodia interviews Tash Rebuck, the sales expert and founder of TR Sales Consultancy, specialising in B2B sales strategy and training for growth businesses whilst strengthening commercial teams.

Watch on YouTube via the link below or keep reading for the transcript, where Steph and Tash cover:

• The BIGGEST traps people fall into making sales

• Cold-calling techniques (put to the test LIVE ON THE AIR!)

• The art of the follow-up - how to get an edge over others

• How acting helped Tash overcome sales blockers

• And so much more sales goodness.

SM: The number one non-negotiable skill in business is not tech. It's not hiring. It's not product development. It is SALES.

Being able to sell your product or your service is non-negotiable, it takes your business idea from hobby to commercial company generating revenue and hopefully profitable. Sales beyond the customers and clients that you're able to convert extends into fundraising, into talent attraction, into engaging your team. It is absolutely the lifeblood of any business, which is why I'm so excited to introduce our next guest subject matter expert, Tash Rebuck. Welcome to Strategy and Tragedy.

TR: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here - mostly because anyone who's as obsessed with sales as I am is a future friend.

SM: We're already friends!

TR: Oh, wow. So the first sales mistake, don't insult the people you're trying to buy into you.

SM: There we go. Turn these hiccups into learning opportunities. Love it.

Alright. So, Tash, I'm so excited for this, not only because it's you, but also diving into this important subject matter because whilst it is so vital, so many of us struggle with it. We're gonna have so much fun here today as well. So I wanna open with the topic of cold calling because it's so overlooked. It is so feared by many. Nobody wants to do it.

So, talk to me first about why cold calling is so effective, some top tips with cold calling, and the best one line opener.

(And, listeners, you are in for a bloody treat with this one! We're gonna put this to the test. I am gonna put all of Tash's tips and tricks. I'm gonna call some prospects live on the show. It's gonna get meta. It's gonna get fun, and hopefully, not too weird. So, Tash, over to you!)

TR: Amazing. So most of the time when I talk about cold calling, that is the thing that strikes so much fear into everyone's hearts, and it's almost like one of those things. It's you know what? It's like the Jurassic Park of sales. Everyone's like, no no, that's dead. That died a long time ago. We don't need to clone that and bring it back. But like bell bottom jeans, it has come back into fashion.

SM: I was so close to wearing bell bottom jeans here as well today!

TR: And that would have really made my day because then you would have been the brand for cold calling. But the recipe was so big in, like, the nineties and the early two thousands. And then the reality is everyone started getting annoyed because everyone was cold calling. And so then email outreach became the trend.

Email outreach is now starting to see the same decline that cold calling did.

So how do we get back in touch with people? Everyone's inbox is absolutely slammed. What does no one do anymore? Pick up the bloody phone.

SM: I'm excited to do it. And just on the note of the email inbox, like, overload, I saw a really interesting LinkedIn post, which was someone saying that they literally never read their emails, and they've got an AI tool that just sends the top ones and just like, this is what you should respond to. This is what you can ignore. Top key points from some newsletters you actively read. That's it. So we're we're now with AI. There are people just totally ignoring their inbox.

TR: 100%. And that's kind of the issue with any singular sales outreach process. If you've only got one, then there's always a way to be ignored. That's why if someone wants to do email, you've also got to add on LinkedIn, send messages there, send emails, follow-up with cold calls, send like, you have to do it across every single avenue. Otherwise, it's just too easy to be ignored.

SM: So what would you say to potentially kind of a naysayer there with the bombardment? Like, okay. But, like, I don't wanna be a pest.

TR: Cold calling is almost the answer to being a pest because instead of sending five, six emails in a row, you call once and you get your answer. That's the whole thing. Sales is just about getting a yes or no.

I don't believe in being ghosted.

I believe in that before you get the answer. And it's fair enough. Look. So not all of us like being told to bugger off. Doesn't bother me. I've got very thick skin. I'm a failed stand up comedian. I'm very used to rejection. But if you call someone and they say to you, look, thank you for getting in touch, and they do say thank you, but this isn't of interest to me anymore. That's it. They're off your list. They won't be bothered again. Move on. But if they're ignoring your emails, you're gonna keep going and keep going if you are a good salesperson.

SM: That makes total sense. And do you know what listening to you there is? Actually, the tip for even handling sales and had like, being on the other side of it. I don't know if it's like a British thing as well, but it's like, we don't know how. It's like the the cowardly thing is to just ghost because we don't know how to decline, you know? So we're like, oh, no. Just do I'll just ignore it until it vanishes and goes away. But, actually, what you've also given there is a really practical tool for someone who might because we all get sold to as well. Like, whether or not we're selling, you're giving someone a real kind of toolkit there of how to decline those unwanted calls.

TR: Yeah. Absolutely. And I think that look. We're all inundated with outreach all the time. I mean, any given day, if you open your LinkedIn, you're gonna have, like, ten, twenty messages from people. And even as a salesperson who tries to give everyone a good chance, there are people that I just ignore. If it's lazy, if it's automated, if it's not personalized, I'm not going to bother responding to you unless you're persistent, and then I will tell you to leave me alone, but in a really nice way. Nice. But if I see that someone has taken the time to personalize that out, I will give them the time of day. I will respond to them straight away.

Even if I'm not interested, it's just a look. Thank you so much for taking the time. Not for me. And But they put in the effort, and there's that cognitive bias when someone's put in the effort. And there's nothing more personal than a cold call because you can't do it well.

I mean, you can do it with AI, but it's always better done by a human. We're not quite there yet Yeah. With the AI sales agent just yet. Alright. Alright.

Well, with that in mind, shall we crack on with this little live experiment? I think we have. Alright. So share your top tips for cold calling and your best one line opener, and I'm gonna put it to the test here live. Excellent.

So my first top tip will be tricky for you today, which is it's a numbers game. Okay. Most people are terrified of sales and doing any kind of outreach because they think they're gonna get rejected. The reality is, what are we gonna call three, four people? Yeah.

You will probably not get anyone picking up. Mhmm. That's the reality of call. We've also got 4PM on a Friday, so listeners, bear with us. We've got that talent to work again.

If it doesn't go well, we'll think of something else funny. Don't worry. If that'll tell you of it. So it's all about numbers going, making sure you've got people's information, make sure the data is good, all of that. But the big thing is the opener.

The way that you start your cold call is so important, and it's just about being honest. So for me, I'll always go, hi, so and so. This is Tash. Look. I'm gonna be totally honest with you.

This is a cold call, but I promise you I've got such good reason why I've reached out. Can I steal five seconds of your time? Alright. So go through that. And, also, think of a really good open question.

So you do say, yeah. I'll give you a second. You explain it. Try and think for a really good open I've got something in mind. Alright.

This is so exciting. Me too. Me too. I hope our listeners can feel the palpitations, the excitement here. The other thing that I wanna share with our listeners is this is very meta.

What I'm gonna do is I'm going to call up some totally cold prospects so you know fully what is what here. Cold prospects, they've never heard of me. I've never reached out to her. This is as cold as ice. And they are sales tools because in a very meta way, what I have actually, uncovered through different experiments is pitching particular episodes for podcast sponsorships is a really good hook.

So I'm using this interview on sales to pitch to sales tools to see if they wanna sponsor this episode. If they do, they can do an elevator pitch right here, right now, live on the air.

TR: Amazing. I think that's such a good idea. I also just think it's very important that the audience recognizes that, like, you have to be so fucking brave to do this. You are right now my absolute hero because even I wouldn't want a cold call cold on stage.

SM: By the way, listeners, we've also got, an incredible live audience member here with us as well. So we've got I've got Tash. I've got things to remember. I've got live audience.

I've got you guys as well. So this is all happening. Okay. Alright. The first one I'm calling is but we don't know if they're gonna answer.

Alright. This is so funny. The first one I'm gonna answer. Cool. Okay.

I'm gonna try a B2B sales AI intelligence tool called X. Oh. Do you know them? I was gonna actually ask what you use because that would be good to to pitch tools that you actually recommend. Oh, yeah.

That is a good point. So I love X. I think it's fantastic. Okay. But I often try and work with tools that are a little bit more sort of, like, on the lower cost end because a lot of the people I work with are early stage founders.

Look. Stop talking because they might sponsor this. I'm saying X is the dream If you can afford it. I know. Well, you shouldn't have asked then, should you?

Well, if they're honest Then they do a promo code to bring the price down. Yeah. Exactly. Alright. Let's see if you can hear this.

Yeah. I wanna call. Okay. Can't take your call. Oh, yes.

Absolutely. When you're done, press hash or just hang up.

"Hey. My name is Stephanie Melodia. I'm the host of UK's Top 20 Business Show, and I wanted to reach out to ask how you're getting on with your marketing because I'm not sure if you're really aware of this, but podcasting is one of the most effective ways to cut through and reach a very relevant hyper niche targeted audience.

We have a full media kit with all the stats, case studies, amazing information I can send across to you. We'd love to follow-up on email if you'd like to see more. In the meantime, I look forward to connecting with you another time. Thanks a lot. Take care."

Are you the voice mail? Because Yeah. Of course. I I used to always review voice mails. How did you feel it went first?

I wasn't comfortable leaving the voice mail. Not because of me doing it, but because now they know it's a sales call. And now if they see me call again, they're gonna screen my number. Unfortunate, you fell into a classic trap. Okay.

You pitch slapped. Ah, bastard. Yeah.

Oh oh, sorry. Excuse me.

You pitch slapped. Yeah. You gave them the full pitch. I would have gone in for something to, use them.

So a little bit of, like, you know, hi, this is gonna seem really weird. I'm actually calling you live from a podcast, which I think X would be the dream sponsor for. Look. It's a bit out there.

I'm gonna send you a text or I'll call you tomorrow. And that's the big thing saying, I'm gonna call you tomorrow. It's the the threat. You'll be in touch again. So if they don't wanna speak, they can let you know straight away.

But if they're interested, they'll call you back. This same type of threat, I like that. The threat, I'll be back. I'll be back. This same person has another.

If we try this one, should I go at it again? I was gonna get used to it because you're so good at it, but I know yours is coming afterwards. So Should I leave it? I would leave it because that was definitely her phone because Yeah. It was her voice, I assume.

Yeah. Yeah. Her name. Yeah. And so that's when you can sometimes become too much.

Okay. And there's a fine line there. And we've got other people. We haven't call her back tomorrow. I mean, tomorrow is Saturday.

Oh, well, I wouldn't do that. Yeah. I'd I'd call her on Monday. So the pitch slapping I thought what? I'm gonna pitch slap you.

Should I do on the first call. Right? Like, if they do answer, I'm here to be honest about what I want. So what you wanna do is you wanna give almost like a a really short segment, and then you ask that big question, that big open question. So you wanna go, you know, look.

Be totally honest. I'm calling actually live on podcast right now. I would love to deal five minutes of your time if that's okay. Okay. And then they say, yeah.

And then you go, look. The reason I'm calling is I'm currently recording a sales podcast. We're looking for sponsors. Okay. Obviously, you fit the bill.

Our founders are looking for solutions like yours. But look. I'm on I'm on camera right now. I'd love to know, is it too crazy to try and put something in the diary for next week? Okay.

Let's see how much of that I remember. Yeah. That was a lot. That was gonna get that all in one word. Let's go again.

As in, like - Fantastic. Yeah. That's that's the tool I use. I love it.

Yeah. It follows my face. This is already kind of an ad for all these tools that we're trying to pitch pitch for to sponsor. Tell you what. We're gonna bleep them out like swear words unless they sponsor.

Yes. Love it. Love it. Love it. So this is an American number.

So we've got timing on our side because it should be about midday maybe for these guys. Excellent. I'm not I have I've already forgotten half of what you said, so I'm just gonna give it my best though here. Okay? All we want is a pickup.

Your call has been forwarded to voice mail. Bastard. It's hurting you're trying to Okay. Hang up. Not available.

We're gonna send a text message. Okay. Easy to respond to. Let's do it now in case we get a response. Oh, yeah.

Absolutely. Hey, Tim. Yeah. Was just calling you live from I genuinely think that's so interesting. Was just calling you live from a podcast Yeah.

Specifically for founders looking to grow. Yes. And as a founder that loves Apollo, I'd love to chat about sponsor. Hang on. You're talking too fast.

I've just put Hey, Tim. I love it. Hey, Tim. Just tried calling you live from the air from my podcast studio specifically for entrepreneurs Entrepreneurs. Looking for tools To help grow their business.

Looking for tools like a Yeah. Bleep. Bleep. Hey, Tim. Just try calling you live on the air from my podcast studio, from my podcast specifically for entrepreneurs looking for tools like a Would love about potential sponsorship opportunity.

Oh, so we're being clear about that. Yeah. Absolutely. We're not gonna waste these people's time. Okay.

Ship opportunities. I'll try you again next week. Yeah. Oh, no. No.

No. Ask. Say. Would it be crazy to have a chat next week? Would it be impossible to have a chat next week?

Okay. Can I schedule a Yeah? Would be would it be impossible, is there no way that if you pose it as an impossibility That's so funny. It's, it's hard to say no to it. It's a small psychological trip.

I love it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I love that.

Love that. Would it be impossible to find a time next week Yeah. To talk about sponsorship opportunities. Next week. Okay.

Hey, Tim. Just tried calling you live on the air from my podcast, specifically for entrepreneurs looking for tools like Apollo. Would love to chat about podcast sponsorship opportunities. Would it be impossible to find a time next week? Is that okay?

Alright. Listen. We're hitting send. So if we get a response that was also me calling from my UK Vodafone to an American number. This is my dedication.

So they've got an iMessage, which I know is a bigger thing in The US. But that's excellent. That means it's gone through. You'll see if he reads it. I love how this is two birds with one, how I'm doing my sales while so staying.

But this is what working with me is like, you know, not not to not to do a sales pitch, but I can't help myself. You do it. This is what works like. You just do it. You know?

The show don't tell what how how much less interesting would this be? We can be we're doing it for real life. Exactly. Okay. I've got two more calls to make.

Should we keep going with us? Just having fun with this. Let's do it. I'm loving this. I just pick up.

Alright. So, I've got another UK number here. Should I tell you who it is if you wanna give me some pointers? So it is kind of like a it is a sales tool. It's Bauhaus.

It's more like data intelligence. Yeah. Yeah. And it's actually this has been being a bit sneaky as well. It's actually an account executive who reached out to me this week, and his number's in the signature.

So I was like, oh, returning your email. Yeah? Perfect. Yeah. Alright.

Because this would be a re like, so with every cold call, you're always thinking, what do I want to get out of this? It's the same with any approach with anyone. Right? Now for this person, it wouldn't necessarily be that they'd be the right decision maker. So what you want is not a meeting with them.

Mhmm. You want an introduction person. Mhmm. Exactly. Okay.

Alright. Fantastic. Love this. Alright. Let's call Tom.

And if they're a good salesperson, they should pick up the phone. It's twenty four minutes past four on a Friday. It failed. Oh. Oh, because I've lost signal?

Spanner in the works, tech letting us down. And this is why cold calling really isn't that scary. Yeah. I've got signal again. Exact you pump you get yourself all pumped up.

Yeah. And then they don't even bloody answer. Alright. Exactly. Oh, I've lost signal.

What's going on? That failed as well. It might be that he's on another call. Else that I've got is apparently oh, I've just had a message from Vodafone. I've now spent over £1 on calls to international numbers, so that was my commitment.

I've spent I've spent a quid on Tom Zeng. Okay. But think about what's your average My ROI. Yeah. No.

What's your average contract value for sponsorship? That was worth a pound. Get that. It's a fantastic ROI. Gang?

I'm hoping that for entertainment value, that was worth a pound. So Someone sponsored me. If you if you had fun doing that. Alright. I'm not gonna call Tom again.

I'm gonna call this other one. Right. This is unfortunately, this isn't their direct number. So this speaks Yeah. Yeah.

Each one of these, all these different I'm sorry. It's saying you planned this really, really well. She didn't. I love how it's all falling into place. Don't admit that.

This, but this does also speak to the quality of the data in the first place which you touched on, the lead sourcing generation before we even kinda pluck up the courage to actually speak to them. So there's that as well. So this number so it is a generic office number, not someone's individual number. I don't know the name of the person. I can find that out though pretty quickly.

Would it be better to get their name? Absolutely. Oh, okay. Alright. Chat to the listeners while I get their name.

Oh my god. Okay. Actually, it's a great opportunity to talk about lead generation because one of the things that I find most frustrating and I think is, like, disappointing for a lot of business owners is that they'll spend a huge amount of money on lead generation. Yeah. So if you look in your spam at any given time, there's going to be people being like, oh, someone paid me £40,000 to get this list of global marketing directors.

I'll sell it to you for £5,000. They've used one of these tools that we've just talked about for a low monthly cost, and they've generated this list. Please don't do that. Please don't spend lots of money on lead generation. Find a good tool that can do it for you or use Google.

Google is free, and there are so many ways that you can build less without paying for it. And then you get my advice. Thank you. Love that. And that gave me time to find the name of the right contacts here.

So calling up and asking for the specific individual. Yes. Okay. And then if I get through to them Use your first name calling their first name. The destination mailbox is 4.

Wow. It's so wonderful. Genuinely genuine I know. It seems really frustrating, but I actually think that this is such a good lesson why sales is about perseverance and number games. You know, you sit here and the first thing I say is, gosh.

This is so scary, like, so nerve wracking to do a call or a bunch of people. And then, actually, you don't get through to anyone. Yeah. Exactly. If we were sat here for the full hour Mhmm.

And you called around 20 people Mhmm. You would probably actually speak to one person. Mhmm. And that one person, I reckon you'd be able to get a meeting with Mhmm. Potentially.

But that's why you spend an entire to make two or three meetings. Yeah. Okay. That would be a pretty perspective, isn't it? Alright.

But at the same day time, one day to get two or three meetings for any business. That's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. Just goes to show what you need to put in.

Right? I'm gonna try Tom again, and I am also going to this is gonna be music to your ears, Tash. Another idea that's just come to me. I'm going to follow-up with somebody that I called earlier this week. And they were like, yeah.

Cool. Send over the media kit, and I haven't had back. Okay. Fantastic. So we're doing a 10 choice.

Yeah. Let me do them first to give this other guy enough time if he was on another call. Yeah. So this other guy I called was Out of curiosity, if you get this contract, do I get 10% commission? 10%?

Jesus. Come on. We need to talk about negotiation afterwards as well. Did I even save his number? Oh, well, you're about to have your first telling off by sales coach.

Yay. Let me find this guy's number. I know his name was Jordan. Oh god. Is that a, a CRM on a spreadsheet I'm spying?

Is that making your skin crawl? Just really CRMs are really useful. That this is just so straightforward. I know. Well, I understand that.

Oh, here we go. I found him. Okay. What's wrong with the spreadsheet when I get the number? Oh, it's just that with a CRM, it's just so much easier on it, and you get the reporting, which is really amazing.

But I'm a big data nerd. So when I joined startups, I always get all into the roots of the CRM to build all their reporting. What CRM do you use? So I will sort of I switch around a little bit, like, shop around. I really like, and not many people use it, is Zoho's Big In.

Okay. I quite like it. Okay. But I am considering moving over to Pipedrive. Okay.

So they were one of the targets that I was also gonna call as well. So I do like Pipedrive. It introduced their email sequencing, and it is quite good. Okay. Maybe let's try and call them afterwards.

This is not meant to be an advert for these companies. Exactly. Exactly. Yet. Oh, put it on speaker.

Because if this goes through, it also shows that Tom was on another call. Person's phone is currently unavailable. Please try later. Do you know what? We're getting closer and closer to 5PM on a Friday, so this is not working well.

Unfortunately, not. Let's try again. Oh, here we go. And then let's move on because I could keep going. But for the sake of our listeners here we go.

Timothy. I don't have the name. Okay. Ah, that failed. Okay.

Alright. Listeners, we're done. We hope you enjoyed that. We hope you learned lots along the way. Alright.

Your review, what's your score? It's grade me. I'm a t could you tell I was a teacher's pet at school? Oh, no. Do I get a gold star?

I could you know what? You get gold star for For the bravery. For the bravery, that's a 10 out of 10 in my books. I cannot grade you on cold calling because you did not did not do a cold call. Someone's calling me back.

No. Who's calling me back? Gotta be Tom. Hi. Stephanie speaking.

Hi, Stephanie. It's here for a PR agency. I just missed a call from this. Hey. And I called you briefly earlier this week about the podcast advertising.

Did you get a chance to check the media kit I emailed over? I did. I did receive it. Let me respond to you. I will respond to you in the next hour or so, Stephanie.

Thanks for the delay. No worries at all. I look forward to hearing back from you, Jordan. Perfect. Thanks very much.

Thanks a lot. Take care. Bye. The excitement of getting a callback. How was that?

I'm sure you've got notes. I do. I'm so sorry. Could I be sorry? I would have asked him what he's gonna email you saying.

He knows that he's gonna have it in an hour. I'd be like, go on. I can't wait. You're so tell me now. Because if he's gonna say no, then you can ask why and get the objection.

Tash, you're so good. Otherwise, you're always in a back and forth chasing with these people. Do you know what? There's such, I I don't wanna make this, like, agenda thing, but there's such a good girl in air quotes problem here. And it goes back to, like, so I don't wanna bother you.

Yeah. I don't want I'm almost like I don't even know what I'm afraid of, but it's like because it's not even rude. Yeah. But it's it still feels very brave. It still feels like that didn't even cross my mind to even ask him.

It's it's really difficult. So I work with a lot of female founders because a lot of what I do isn't just about, like, strategy and training. It's the coaching side of, like, the emotional blockers that you get with sales. Yeah. And as women, we are often be told we're not allowed to take up space.

Yeah. We're not allowed to be annoying, and we're not allowed to ask for what we want. There is nothing more sales than those three things. And so it's overcoming that. And it isn't exclusive to women, but it definitely is something that I think that we struggle with more. Yeah. So sometimes I ask myself, you know well, I ask, would a would a straight man be afraid of this? And if the answer is no, then I bloody well go ahead and do it.

So, also, it's one of those things that I'm just like it's about your mindset. Yeah. And it's about always looking for an opportunity, and it takes practice. But once you get into it, you start to pick them up like little bits of gold dust. He says he has an answer.

For me, I'm so I'm like, oh, what is your answer? I wanna know. I wanna know why that thought didn't even cross my mind, and I wanna know how you know about that. That's a good question. Two in one?

Yeah. That is a good question. So I think that for me so like I said, it's all about practice. So one thing that I a lot is try and help people learn about their prospect better. So sales used to always be about interrogating questions Yeah.

And then, like I said, for pitch slapping, just giving all your information, but that's not how we want to be sold to anymore. That's not how we enjoy being sold to. Yeah. And so it's about getting to know people and sort of picking up what they put down. So learning, asking the right questions, and the more you do that, the more you start to hear what matters.

So if you have happy ears, you're like, oh my gosh. Okay. I'm getting an answer. Great. But if you dig underneath it, if you sort of go to that second layer and you question the answer, that's what I always recommend. You get an answer, question it. And if you just start doing that instinctively there'll always be that next question to ask.

SM: I presume you struggled with this to begin with. Like, practice makes perfect. So in those earlier days for you, what helped you overcome those emotional / mental blockers?

TR: When I started out, I was off the back of being an actor. And I always said, you know, I've got I've got no shame. I left the dignity at the door when I did a Sims 4 advert, and I am born for sales.

-

Tune in to Strategy & Tragedy wherever you get your podcasts to listen to the rest of the interview.

In the meantime, please hit that subscribe button if you haven't already. Thank you. Really hope you've enjoyed this. Episodes are weekly, so make sure to tune in next time.

Strategy & Tragedy: CEO Stories with Steph Melodia is the best podcast for curious entrepreneurs and ambitious founders. Learn from those a few steps ahead of you in these candid interviews of the highs and lows of scaling and failing business.

Watch the full episode here, subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music.

Thank you for listening and for supporting the show!