Anna-Sophie Hartvigsen, Female Invest

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In this episode, Stephanie Melodia interviews Anna-Sophie Hartvigsen, an award-winning Forbes 30 under 30 entrepreneur, bestselling author, TedX speaker, and co-founder of Female Invest, an edtech platform and international community, on a mission to financially empower women and achieve gender parity.

Watch on YouTube via the link below or keep reading for the transcript:

SM: There is not one single country in the world where men and women are financially equal.

That is the problem that Anna-Sophie Hartvigsen is on a mission to solve with her business, Female Invest, which she co-founded with Emma and Camilla in 2017 and joins me now on Strategy and Tragedy. Welcome to the show.

First of all, how does getting women involved in investing help everyone?

AH: Well, investing is not a pie where you get less when someone else takes a slice as well. If anything, the pie gets bigger when women start investing. We get more growth. We get more initiative out in society, and that benefits everyone from individuals to companies and society as a whole.

SM: So what's holding women back? What's getting in the way?

AH: From the moment we are born, we are raised in a society where stereotypes around women and money are so prevalent. The financial system is also not built with women in mind. In fact, women weren't even legally allowed to participate until quite recently.

So at every step of our journey, we have the odds stacked against us. So women do not keep from investing because they aren't good or they aren't smarter. They don't want to. The system just wasn't built for them.

SM: And in fact, there's research that shows that women can be better investors. Can you talk to us a little bit about that?

AH: Research clearly shows that women are, in fact, better investors, and we see this around the world among both private and professional investors. And when we look at why women are better, we see that they are less emotional than men are when investing because they tend to hold for longer and trace less based on emotions and things going on in the market. So for anyone listening who are afraid to make mistakes, that very fear will make you a very good investor.

SM: It just stands in such stark contrast with that stereotypical view that women are more emotional. Where does that come from, that trope?

AH: I think it comes from so I think it comes from society trying to brand emotions in women as something bad. Whereas when men show emotion, when they show anger, they show frustration, then they're seen as strong leaders. But when women do it, they're seen as unreliable and emotional. So women are definitely not the emotional gender, especially not when looking at investing.

SM: Another symptom of the patriarchy. And so how is Female Invest helping to solve this problem exactly?

AH: We are creating financial education by women and for women, and there are two parts here. So first one is delivering the content with other women so that our audience can see role models. And then the second part is that the financial life of a woman just is different. It looks different with career breaks, motherhood, money, and love is very, very different.

We see, for example, that in married heterosexual couples, fifty six percent of married women leave financial planning to their partner. And when eighty percent of them then die single because we marry older men, we get divorced, then the vast majority get negative financial surprises. And that's just one example of the financial journey being different, and we need to tailor to that.

SM: I love what you're doing. Clearly, I love the mission that you're on.

And what I'm so fascinated by is the fact that you didn't come from a financial background yourself. I don't know if you've had any financial role models in your family or anyone close to you. What I saw is you come from a consulting background. So I'd love to hear, how did you get so interested to the degree of not only recognising that there's a problem here, but building this incredibly successful business around solving this problem?

AH: It's definitely been a journey. So I've always been interested in money since I was a kid. Like, having money, having the freedom, the opportunity that comes with it.

SM: Where do you think that comes from?

AH: I think it's a character trait. I think it's a freedom essentially to be able to do what I want. So I got my first job when I was 13 years old. Wow. And I've done basically every blue collar job up until I was 19.

SM: What was your first job at 13?

AH: I was, walking with elderly people who couldn't leave the home themselves. So I was, like, walking, back and forth. I've been a full time waitress. I've made sandwiches. I've worked at a clothing store. I've been a teacher. I've done all of it.

But by the time I was 19, I then had decent savings. And this is when I learned that my savings were losing value in my bank account because inflation was higher than the interest rate, and I just couldn't live with that. So I started researching what to do. And, I mean, everyone have heard about buying property, so that was my first thought.

I booked a meeting with my bank, and it was a one hour meeting where they even prepared a slideshow with all of the reasons why I could definitely not buy a property, because I did not have enough money for it. So I left, and I almost, like, apologised out the door.

Then I was like, what else could I do?

And that's when I started thinking about investing in stocks.

SM: At this point, is this just coming from yourself on your own, or are you getting are you seeing this from any external sources because this is not a normal story? Like, people don't just be like, my savings are losing money because the interest rate is lower than inflation. Maybe I'll buy a house. Maybe I'll book a meeting with the bank. Maybe I'll look at, like where does that I wanna try and unpack that a little bit to understand your uniqueness in that.

AH: It's a good question. I think it really just comes down to the the character trait of wanting a freedom, of wanting to, you know, do things on my own schedule and do things my own way.

Plus, I worked minimum wage for so many years, and that's really hard work. So I just couldn't live with the fact that the money was losing value.

SM: Viscerally feeling this money that you've worked so hard for!

And, so where do you know where to where to turn? And also, I'm just really curious to hear about it also what comes across to me is, like, a lack of the fear factor here as well. I feel like there's a lot of young people, women through, you know, social conditioning, etcetera, that would be just too afraid, too scared. It's it's off-putting to I mean, even just trying to understand, like, most banks' websites can feel like deciphering hieroglyphics!

So, where did you turn to for help?

AH: So I didn't really have anywhere to turn for help. And looking back on my journey, I think the most costly mistakes I've made have been mistakes because I didn't have anyone to ask. So for example, with the property example, I actually had saved, up enough to buy, like, a very cheap, maybe one bedroom apartment. But when the first bank said no, I just thought that the bank is, like, you know, one entity.

If the bank says no, that's like a hard deal. Because I didn't know you could just go and ask someone else or ask my parents if they would guarantee the loan, stuff like that. I only learned so later. And now I think I really missed out on a good profit had I bought that apartment twelve years ago. So I think I had very costly mistakes because I didn't have anywhere to turn. And that's part of the problem I then realised.

SM: Hence, Female Invest. So you're looking into, like, ways to make your money work harder for you. What happens next?

AH: So at this point in time where I start investing, I actually work as a full time waitress, and I Google what are stocks, how do you buy stocks, start to learn about it. I borrow books. I talk to people. I hit people up in social media who know stuff about it.

SM: And were there any good books that helped during this time?

AH: I think I went for two advanced books, which made the topic feel so much even harder than it actually was.

And then in the end, what got me started is that I went to a party at my friend's house. And at that house party, there was a guy who already invested, and he wrote down the name of a trading platform on a napkin. And I took that napkin home, and the next day, I made my first investment. And that's how it really started.

SM: And that is how it does often start is that when you're completely new I mean, just to anything, it's kind of like, okay. Sure. I can Google things. I can try you there sort of searching in the wild, wild west on your own. But until you actually have a human to human conversation and and a specific recommendation, it feels like you're feeling around in the dark.

Let's fast forward to business school meeting your two cofounders. What happened there?

AH: So I started investing a lot. I started talking about it to anyone, you know, to try to find community, and I was so disappointed in business school because even there, there weren't really any women investing.

SM: And what's the taboo like in Denmark around money? Is it the same as here in The UK?

AH: It's not really talked about or I think it's a bit it's a bit less of a taboo, but we still definitely don't talk numbers or how much savings or how much we make. So you really are kinda going against the grain trying to, like, some break time and talk to people about it. But I was just so fascinated about it because I started doing pretty well with my investments. So I just wanted someone to talk to.

And, yeah, the disappointment was huge until one day, I'm sitting at a lecture, and this girl comes up and sits next to me. That's my now cofounder, Emma. And she said that she heard from other people that I've been investing, and she had too.

She'd thought about starting something with investing, and that's how the whole conversation started.

We met Camilla shortly after, but that's really like, we weren't friends. We didn't know each other beforehand.

We just united over this passion for investing and this shared journey of how difficult it was to find other women who were interested.

SM: And, as organically as that has happened, that is the best way for cofounder pairings to come about is sharing a united passion for the the same mission that you're working towards and actually not having been friends already can help, right? Because you kinda keep it professional, I guess. You get to start kinda from that blank canvas.

There's another lesson that I wanna extrapolate for our listeners, which is the power of talking about something. Sometimes entrepreneurs, especially when they've got an idea before they've launched something, they feel very maybe they wanna keep their cards close to their chest. They don't wanna share it too much. They don't want somebody to come along and steal the idea. But, actually, if you are vocal about it, you put it out there, you're increasing the chances of attracting the right partners to come to you.

So it sounds like it was all sort of, like, destined, meant to happen.

So how did Female Invest get formed and will kind of accelerate through to your own fundraising and entrepreneurial journey with the company as well?

AH: Yeah. So, I mean, the first step was just to create, like, a small group. We imagined, you know, 10 to 20, maybe 30 women who could meet, drink some wine, talk about stocks, and we had no idea how to find those twenty, thirty women. So we made a Facebook page, and we called it Female Invest just so women would know that this was for them. Super clear and obvious.

And I remember the day we launched the Facebook page, we had 400 women sign up.

And we're like, what? Like, that was not the intention.

SM: Wow, what incredible market validation. Right?

AH: Yes, and interestingly, these women, at least most of them, did not invest yet, but they wanted to learn how. So we started hosting educational events first in small group rooms at university, then in the lecture halls.

SM: How were you monetising at this point?

AH: It was free. It was a nonprofit. Then we outgrew the lecture halls. We started partnering with companies just to physically have space to fit these women, and it became massive. Like, it was wild. And these companies, they're not sponsoring you at this point.

They paid a little bit, but, like, symbolic, like, £2,000, to cover costs. And within the first year and a half, we've done, like, a roadshow of in person events, and more than 25,000 women had in person attended. And we made it cool, like champagne, house music, cool vibes. Just completely, you know, rethinking it. And that's when we knew there was something there and Something.

We should maybe turn it into a business.

SM: Oh my god, Anna-Sophie, this is so incredible. It's so exciting. I hear so many stories of how entrepreneurs have got, like, an itch to scratch, and they wanna do something, and they're kind of out there in search of a problem. Whereas this sounds very much like it was problem first, like, clearly front and centre. And I'm absolutely impressed by the rapid growth so quickly with this Facebook group amassing 400 members so rapidly.

What do you think that was down to? Was it the name? Was it, like, referrals?

AH: I think it was just a huge untapped demand.

As we already talked about, I mean, women want to grow their money. We are more educated than ever before. We have more money than ever before. And then there's just no one taking us seriously to the extent where they are building stuff for us. So I think it's really just like starting to peak at that untapped demand.

SM: Yeah. This is where it's like the timing, the market appetite.

There's such a this is such a fantastic lesson I really wanna underscore for for listeners, which is putting something out there, putting it to the test, and being very objective with those results. So even the fact that you were clear enough with your initial expectations before even, I was like, maybe 20. You know, because I think that getting on the front foot with that helps entrepreneurs to then assess afterwards whether or not, like, was this a failure? Was it a success? So the fact that you've gone out there first and be like, maybe ten twenty, actually, this is 400. This is unequivocally a crazy number. So this is amazing. I love hearing this story. This is incredible.

So you're onto something. How do you now convert this from a nonprofit community to a monetised business?

AH: So that's a good question. And you don't learn these things in school, like who do you call? Right. What do you Google? What do you do? Again - same figuring it out. So, yeah, we had to figure everything out from scratch, from putting up the legal entity, which we could barely cover the cost for with the money we had from the nonprofit because we could move it into the for profit. And then we just started from scratch.

We knew at this point that we weren't able to scale fast enough because the events often had me as a speaker, and I just physically could not be in so many places. So we knew we had to go online also to meet international demand because we started out in Scandinavia.

And that's when we got the idea to make an online membership.

This was also around the world where COVID started happening. I actually remember we got an office, and that office had rent of £60 per month, which was, like, barely what we could afford. And a month after we got our first office, COVID closed the world.

SM: Wow.

AH: And I remember we were sitting there.

We were just crying because we had to cancel all the revenue from events that we had coming in, refund the tickets, and we were as close to bankruptcy as you can be.

So painful. We actually took a walk around the lakes in Copenhagen just to discuss how we were planning to announce the bankruptcy because it's not really great to start out, you know, your first job with the bankruptcy, especially not when everyone told you that you were crazy, this would never work, you're not the right person to do it, yada yada... We went home after that walk.

And then the next morning, we woke up and we were on the Forbes 30 Under 30 list.

And Forbes had shared us on their Facebook. And I mean... You cannot quit!!

So we went back to the office. We brought our toothbrushes, and then we just spent lockdown in each other's company. Like, sleeping in the office sometimes. And then we did everything ourselves from the content to the advertising, to the platform, to everything.

SM: Oh my god. I have got literal goosebumps while I'm listening to this. Talk about the highest highs and the lowest lows in your entrepreneurial journey, right?!

AH: Oh, yeah. It's quite a shock.

SM: I'm sure you've got many more where they came many more.

AH: And the crazy thing is I always expected it would get less as we scale, but the highs just get higher and the lows just get lower.

SM: Don't say that!! We're supposed to be encouraging people to go in touch with us!

AH: But you never stack them up. You just learn to live with it a little bit.

SM: Oh, that's a good lesson actually. You just learn how to live with it. I love that. I feel like there's a deep kind of therapy message in that.

Oh my god, Anna Sophie, I'm like, I feel like I'm out of breath just listening to that story. I feel like I was there with you empathising, going from this office on the brink of your business shutting down. And then the Forbes thirty under 30, and then, like, okay, we gotta go back out there.

Did that give you just kind of a renewed sense of optimism to pick it back up again and pivot, or was it a practical was there a practical benefit that Forbes thirty under 30 gave the business or both?

AH: Forbes 30 under 30 doesn't really give you anything other than recognition.

And since we were now all over the Internet, it was just too embarrassing to quit.

And we're all proud people. Of course, we were also deeply passionate about this. So it was a mix of, you know, fear, failure, and passion for the movement that really kept us going.

SM: I love that. Well, I'm so so happy that it did. And now - looking back on that particular moment - what what would you tell the Anna Sophie of that? What was I don't know if you remember, like, the the specific dates, but, like, before the Forbes thirty on the 30 came out-

AH: I think it was actually March 18.

SM: Love that. Okay. Perfect. So the March 17. When you're at your lowest low, like oh my god, we're gonna have to announce the you know, pronounce our death. So many people already doubted us. So all the doubters, we're gonna prove right. What would you say now to that Sophie of the 17th March 2020?

AH: I would say that you already have everything you need to solve this problem, and it took years for us to start trusting that no matter what obstacle we face, we can solve it.

And now we are years into our journey. So whenever I lose faith, I just look at the evidence. And the evidence suggests that every single time we've had a challenge that looked impossible to overcome, we have found a solution, and that gives a lot more peace of mind. But in the beginning, you don't have that. You have nothing to show. There's no proof. You don't really know with yourself if you have what it takes. So that definitely gets easier with time.

SM: And on that note, I just wanna add, there are so many, like, BS tips and tricks when it comes to building your self confidence, but the number one way so this is for any listeners as well.

If you're feeling a bit low, if you're feeling a bit in the dumps, down in the dumps, if you're questioning, you're doubting yourself, the single most effective way to boost your self confidence is to give yourself enough irrefutable evidence that you got this. So it echoes your point with, like, we've now especially, you know, now that you have got the wisdom, what you've amassed and now got under your belt is the evidence. And so as much as, like, you know, you want maybe say, like, morning affirmations in the mirror or you wear your favourite outfit or listen to a hype track to get you pumped up, it's the irrefutable evidence to help boost your confidence.

How much easier did it make having cofounders in the trenches with you at that time?

AH: It made the entire difference. Like, for sure, neither of us would be here if we'd been trying to do this journey alone. And I think it comes down to so many different benefits of having cofounders from having just the mental support of someone who truly understands what you're going through, who believes in you, who's cheering you on, who you can share the frustrations with, that means so much.

Also just having someone who's equally invested in it with you. I mean, I told you when we started out, we weren't friends. We just bonded over this mission, but now Em and Camilla are some of the closest people in my life, and I'd say they have probably an impact on my life to the same degree as my parents have. It is crazy. Like, everything you keep around them. My work wives, they shape my outlook of life, of what I thought was possible.

SM: Incredible. Whenever I do come across cofounders, it tends to be, like, pairs. It's a yin and a yang. How does that work in terms of, like, the dynamic with three of you?

AH: I think it's so nice because it gives a bit more flexibility. So when we make decisions, for example, if two really wanna go with something, the third always just, you know, bends in and we go with that. If there are, you know, tensions or when times are tough or someone is is down, then we're always like one more person to step in. One can be a mediator.

And even just now, practically, we've had three children between the three of us. I I've had zero, but I feel like I have children still because we're so close! So when one person has a child, everyone else has to, you know, stick to it. And had we been just two, that would have been so much harder.

SM: Wow. Yeah. God. I'm so happy to hear, like, how things all kind of fall into place, and that's not to say it's been easy. Of course, we've already touched on some lows, but this is just you know, I feel like sometimes we can try and force things to happen, especially with the business success. But even now on the subject of, like, co-founder relationships, it's like that doesn't always work out. So I'm really happy to hear that not only did you hit on something incredible where there was this huge market appetite, but the three of you coming together has worked out really well.

We need to talk about your own fundraising.

AH: So we have raised $24,000,000, and I've tried to now Google as much as I could and, to my knowledge, we are sadly the female founded startup in the UK to have ever raised that much, at least from what I was able to find, and the same in Denmark.

So that's a lot of money. And I would say as someone having gone through the fundraise and we've raised in many ways from debt financing to angels to VC is the majority of the money, I'm not surprised at all. Like, when I heard the 2% of funding goes to women, I think like many others, I started to make up explanations like, "oh, maybe there are fewer women entrepreneurs, maybe they don't wanna raise money, maybe this and that.... "

But having gone through it, that's not where the problem is.

The glass ceiling in fundraising is so thick that you just can't fathom it until you smash it.

We finished our Series A last year, and there were so many moments where we were just looking at each other in disbelief, like, "Did this really just happen?"

SM: What were some of those moments?

AH: Oh, so many like, there are so many things I also feel like I can't say.

What we've actually done now is we've created a Google Docs, and then we just filled it out with anecdotes to get get things out.

But I think the big picture is just a systematic exclusion for sure, like, not being invited.

Even when you are invited to a dinner, like, no one talking to you, everyone ignoring you.

We've had multiple times where, you know, we always sit as the only women at these dinners and often you start by going around the table saying kinda what you do, how much money you raised, being skipped at the table has happened multiple times.

SM: What?!?!?!

AH: It happens. It's like, "oh, maybe they just didn't, you know, see me," but then it happens multiple times.

SM: This is disgusting. Are you not like "Hang on - you skipped me"?

AH: At first, you don't really say anything because it's also awkward. You're already out of place. No one really wants to hear what you have to say.

SM: Wild.

AH: And now I think it's now a mix of, we've tried to remove ourselves from spaces where we clearly aren't welcome. Like, strip clubs.

You'd be surprised how many deals are made at strip clubs.

How are you supposed to sit there as a woman, you know, being taken seriously when all the men are talking about, you know, the dancing... How is that supposed to work?

SM: Of course. Wow.

AH: So that's definitely been a challenge. And it keeps being a challenge. Like, I don't think you move past it. It's very hard sometimes to keep my cool when I see male founders with metrics that are a fraction of hours, a product that's not even done, no experience, racing like this with no data room because everyone believes in their potential. And when we have, like, such a detailed data room, we have the traction, we have the everything, and then it's still not good enough - for some reason.

SM: Absolutely disgusting. It's having to run twice as fast to get half as far, not even that.

Oh my god. Anna Sophie, you know, the parallel here that I'm witnessing is almost like harking back to when you were first starting Female Invest. When you were looking around for help, it's the classic if you can't get a seat at the table, you build your own. And you've done this as three women coming together together to help other women to invest. The same thing needs to happen in so many different facets of business, but here as well in the fundraising.

It needs we need more women to be making more money to be able to pay it forward and invest in other women because I personally am kind of over you know, I think male allyship was a trend a while ago, and I don't know how much that's actually moved the needle or how many male allies are putting their money where their mouth is and helping with situations like these. I think so many men, even though they mean well, they have no idea what we're actually going through.

AH: I remember we even had that was at a later stage in the fundraising. We were pitching this male VC, it was a smaller VC. And in the end, he was like, yeah, you know, he wouldn't invest. And the reason was that our numbers were too good. So if we truly had the numbers that we set, it didn't make any sense that we're pitching him because someone else should have snatched it up some of the better VCs.

So he felt like there was something we didn't say. So for that reason, he was out.

Even when you're presenting the irrefutable evidence, there's always an answer.

It's like, "Well, this is just too good to be true."

It can't be. I don't know why, but it can't. It can't be.

SM: Yeah. I really hope that there are some guys listening into this right now, and I have a fear that it may be majority women that are still with us.

If there's any guys still listening to this, I love you. I appreciate you a lot from the bottom of my heart. Wherever you're listening to this, give us a signal. Like, leave us a comment. Like, give us a wave wherever you're listening to this. If this is on YouTube, on Spotify, I think you can leave comments because, like, we're not here finger pointing.

We don't wanna get anyone's backs up. We don't want anyone to get defensive and, you know, yes, whilst the patriarchy exists, we're not blaming specific men (although maybe Anna and your cofounders maybe have had one or two bad experiences).

But nothing is going to change unless certain guys in those positions of power start to become aware of that unconscious bias.

And in the meantime, do what you've been doing and keep plugging away and keep building and keep fundraising and stay awesome.

So, coming to something that's hopefully a bit more positive and practical, I'm not gonna ask you, like, how you navigated these dicks because they're dicks.

If there are women still listening here, and if they are currently fundraising or they're thinking about it, I don't want this to be off-putting because you clearly have done it - you've raised $24,000,000. Congratulations. Amazing you've achieved that. Where did you go to to get that money?

AH: One key thing to remember for anyone listening is that it only takes one.

It only takes one VC to say yes for you to close the round. So to give you an idea of the numbers game, we stopped counting after 107 no's. And those are people we had, like, breakfast, coffee, dinner, multiple pitches, often all the way up to IC.

107, we stopped counting.

SM: How many did you get as far as IC? And break that down for the listeners as well in case they don't know.

AH: So the way it works when you pitch a VC is often that you start with some analyst in the middle. If they like what they see, they forward you to a partner, then you pitch again.

Often, they have more data requests. You go back. You deliver. You pitch maybe to multiple partners. If they like it, they put you to the IC, so the investment committee, which is often like a bunch of old white men.

And then you pitch again, and then they can say yay or nay. And we got there, like, I don't know, forty, fifty times.

SM: Wow.

AH: Many, many times.

SM: So you got to forty, fifty IC level?

AH: Yes.

SM: And and then still a rejection.

AH: Yes.

SM: That's hard.

AH: But it's not done until it's done. So we just kept going.

And in the end, we found that one who said yes, which is Europe's largest female founded VC, I think, Edu Capital.

And then we got some follow on funds, and all of our existing investors decided to invest as well.

SM: Wow. Incredible. I mean, I did wanna ask which which number that was after a hundred and seven, but you stopped counting. Rough gauge, how many more do you think it was until you got to Edu Capital? Two hundred?

AH: Probably, yes. Like, it was wild.

SM: Oh my god. Just to put that into perspective for people as well, because I feel like certain numbers are hard to grasp. So just the sheer numbers, I think this is really important to underscore for listeners. 200 rejections, that's like four rejections a week.

AH: Yeah. And then we did it in a much smaller time frame.

So we warmed up the market for a few months before, and then we started investing, I think, in February.

And then my cofounder, Camilla, did it full time just pitching rejection, pitching rejection, traveling around also the world to meet in person with investors to get rejected.

SM: Such a waste of time.

And a couple of quick questions off the back of that. One is, who's the most tenacious of the three of you?

AH: I think probably Camilla and myself, which is why Camilla took the lead on that fundraising, so we have split roles. She took the lead because she also does finance data. It's a very numbers heavy role. And then I was responsible for the growth of the company meanwhile because you need to have better results than ever. Because all of them want to see how you close the next month or the next month. And then Emma managed our product meanwhile.

SM: I mean, this also goes back to the case for the three cofounders because if you're fundraising, each of these different job functions, which go which would kind of go beyond the normal day to day business as usual, like how are things dialled up so much more when you're fundraising.

And so now having gone through so many rejections, what would you do differently if you had to fundraise again?

AH: I maybe sound a bit full of myself now, and I just want to say there are so many things we could be better at, that we're not good enough at, we make mistakes every day.

But when it comes to fundraising, I have, to this day, never ever met founders who were better prepared.

I've never seen a better data room, a better deck. I've never heard of someone who did more research in terms of talking to network, listening to podcasts, like reading blogs. Everything. Like, I don't think it's possible to be more prepared than we were. So I think it just came down to the numbers game.

I think the one thing I maybe would do differently would be around mental health because it's really hard. So next time, if we have to fundraise again going into it, I think we'll definitely prioritise getting sleep. Still eating, like, three times per day, making sure to exercise. Because if it's a process that drags on for months, it does become unsustainable.

And to add to this story, while this is going on and Camilla is fundraising, she is pregnant. And she has a horrible pregnancy, and she pukes multiple times per day up until she gives birth. And we keep it secret, which is very hard. We ended up signing the term sheet on her due date, and she gave birth as the money was being transferred.

SM: Oh my god. This is the first her first pregnancy, was it?

AH: The second pregnancy. The first time we fundraised, Emma was pregnant.

SM: Oh my god. This is so wild. It just goes to show, doesn't it? Like It does. What you can do just like and you're pregnant in the meeting, and you're, like, making another human in the process. I don't know how she did it.

Do you think any of the investors that rejected you regret their decision?

AH: It's hard to say. Maybe one day, if we end up IPO-ing or selling for a massive amount, maybe then they will. But I think many of the rejections boiled down to not believing in the market or not believing in us. So I guess that's still there.

SM: Does revenge fuel you at all?

AH: Sometimes. I think mainly when I see much less talented men screwed to the top, whether it's entrepreneurship or elsewhere, where I just feel like the recognition of how easy they've had it.

And as you say, it's not at all against men. We wouldn't be here without the amazing support of so many men. We employ a lot of men, but it is kinda hard to see that bias, that complete lack of awareness of the privilege they have. Even for us, like, we have raised so much money now.

But realistically, had we had the same talent and the same business but a different skin colour. We probably would not have raised that much money because the odds are even less in favour of black women or black people in general, so I think it's just important to recognise your own privilege.

SM: Yeah. Exactly. Wow. Anna-Sophie, what a wild ride, and you came out the other end stronger than ever. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, and you've got this record breaking amount of cash under your belt. So congratulations again.

How are you investing that amount fundraised to take female investors to the next level? And what's that impact that you guys are driving now?

AH: So we're investing in a few different things. We are investing in our product. We're actually in the middle of a big project to relaunch everything and make it a lot better. Then we are investing in growth both in our home market here in The UK, which is now the fastest-growing market, but also in the US, which we just started entering in March of this year.

And those are the big things. So doing better and doing bigger.

SM: Love it. It's better and bigger. I love it.

On the subject of growth, what I have to ask you about is any practical activities, channels that have worked for you, in terms of growth levers. I mean, it already sounds like you've already kinda got the winds in your sails. You've got that market appetite there already, so you've really got that product market fit that it's just a case kinda dialling that up. If you can break down, like, what what has helped you kinda grow the business, and I would love link to that to hear about the fantastic guerilla marketing campaign that you did at the London Marathon.

AH: So, I mean, we are community based, and we started out as a community, and that's the reason why we've made it this far. So I would say for anyone listening in, figuring out what is your mission, and then getting really, really good at storytelling and making it about something bigger.

Like, when you join Female Invest to learn about money, it's not even about money.

It's about freedom, power, independence, change in the world, and that attracts a lot more people and makes them feel a lot stronger just like we feel about it.

So figure out your "why" and get very good at storytelling that why, communicating it. We have used a lot of different channels, and I think they all support each other from the organic channels where we actually don't convert massively.

We just build the community and the message, to getting people on board for free webinars, for example, where we then give free education, convert at the end, paid ads. Like, we've done so many things.

And the campaign you're now talking about, the marathon campaign, was something we did at the London marathon recently where we rented so many billboards along the route where we put up myths around women, like women don't have the endurance, and then we put them small to be held back down by the patriarchy.

We had people running in our t shirts saying investing is a marathon, not a sprint.

We chose specifically the London marathon because women were legally not allowed to run more than four miles until quite recently. Can't remember the year. So it just seemed like such a nice arena, you know, somewhere women used to be excluded from.

Now we make up half of runners. We do amazingly well. And, basically, all we need is the chance, and then we can do it. And it's the same with investing. And and we've done a lot of campaigns like that.

At one point, we built, like, a gigantic hourglass to symbolise how time is ticking and financial gender equality, and we've directed all around London.

We've done some crazy stuff and, you know, it makes it fun.

SM: Yeah. It makes it mission driven, and it builds community. And conversation starters as well. Right? You know, I think let's talk about community and, you know, it's like, okay. What does that mean? How do you how do you get that? And you you're doing these really mission driven, creative activations that get people. So the amount of times that I've that I've sent the images of your campaign to other like, these guys, did you see what they did at the London marathon? Anna-Sophie, you're giving me so many goosebumps. The whole time I'm listening to you, I'm just like, I'm feeling so, like, fired up and rallied, and I just feel like I'm totally bought into the same mission as well and so happy to see you succeeding.

What is the impact that you've had so far with Female Invest? Like, how many women have you helped invest their money?

AH: Camilla just sent me the numbers yesterday - hot off the press. So we've had more than a 50,000 women pay for the membership.

In the free education, that we also do, we've had more than 750,000 women. And, I mean, through our channels, we have around 60,000,000 impressions per month. So it is massive numbers. And we often hear, of course, from our members that their lives are changing, but also just from women, you know, seeing us, seeing the movement we've created, and then getting the courage to make changes in their own lives.

SM: How inspiring. Anna-Sophie, I'm so happy to see you have this success. I'm genuinely so happy for all of you. You mentioned a few specific use cases. Is there a specific story you might be able to tell of, like, one particular user who's helped achieve financial empowerment through Female Invest?

AH: Yeah. So the stories that always make the biggest impression on me is women who are slightly older and who have gone through life and experienced the consequences of not being financially independent, especially women who go through divorce. If they haven't talked to their partner about how to split finances, maybe they stayed home with the kids, worked part time, no one ever talked about it, and then their financial situation is just in stray scrambles after divorce.

SM: They don't even know where the money is sometimes.

AH: Exactly. And we've had quite a few of those women come to us with things looking very dark, children to take care of, and then just turning everything around, you know, starting with the budget, the personal finance, understanding your rights into actually having money left every month, building wealth, and then a few years down the line, being in a completely different position.

SM: Incredible. So inspiring. Oh my god. And I'm so happy to hear that you're having this impact in, like, genuinely changing women's lives.

Traditional closing question: the show is called Strategy and Tragedy because often the best lessons come from the biggest mistakes. We've covered some of the low periods that you've been through.

What's one tragedy, so to speak, that's taught you an unforgettable lesson?

AH: Oh, I have so many.

SM: Maybe we can have time for top three.

So I think something that happened quite recently is that we made a a bet - I don't wanna say the exact number, but, like, in the millions - on something that turned out to not work the way we thought. We just spent way too much money compared to how much money we actually have in the bank. That was definitely an expensive lesson. We haven't done it before. We'll never do it again. Always test your hypothesis, which is usually what we're doing.

I think another tragedy would be all of the times that we had, you know, external people crushing our dreams by closing doors or saying no, whether it is investors saying no or when we wanted to publish our book. So many publishers said no as well. But we always just kept going. And, again, to anyone listening, I don't think most people understand how much grit it actually takes the people you see making it. Like, how many no's, I think it's hard to fed them until you do it. And that's just how we got to where we are today.

SM: Anna-Sophie, thank you so much for coming on the show. What a pleasure to sit down with you, and I really appreciate you breaking down and and just being so honest about mistakes and and showcasing that unglamorous side of the business because that is what the show is all about. The show was born because I'm plugged into this ecosystem, and I got to see firsthand the realities of entrepreneurship beyond the LinkedIn humble bragging and so I really appreciate you coming on and not only being so open about where things went wrong, but showcasing yourself here now, demonstrating you're here, you're smashing it, you're still standing. So it's not to put anyone off. It's just to give that more kind of realistic view of, like, what it actually takes, and you can do this.

Any kind of final wise words you wanna share with our listeners before we leave you?

AH: A final word would be that even though it looks like, you know, people are smashing it or it's easy or someone is having success, then I think as women, especially supporting each other, it means so much more than you think. Because behind the scenes of every woman or minority or someone who's succeeding in a system that wasn't built for them, like, no matter how successful someone looks, there will always be a lot going on behind the scenes. So just that, you know, supporting and cheering each other on, like, that importance never stops no matter if it's your friend or someone you see on social media, then just put the love out there because it's a currency and it helps a lot as well.

SM: That is a great message to leave this on. Anna, thank you so, so much for coming on the show. Thank you so much for listening.

We'll be popping all the URLs in the show notes. Female Invest. Check them out. Get involved.

Thank you too for listening. Really hope that you've enjoyed this fantastic interview with Anna-Sophie. Maybe we should get your cofounders on next time and have a party with all of us!

Hit that subscribe button if you haven't already, and we'll see you next time.

Strategy & Tragedy: CEO Stories with Steph Melodia is the best podcast for curious entrepreneurs and ambitious founders. Learn from those a few steps ahead of you in these candid interviews of the highs and lows of scaling and failing business.

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